It's not something on the "ZOMG GOTTA HAVE ONE!!1111" list quite yet, but I've been thinking about adding a semi-automatic .308 rifle to the armory. There's three different major varieties under discussion:
1. FN/FAL
2. AR-10
3. M1A
1. FN/FAL
2. AR-10
3. M1A
Each platform has their own merits and drawbacks, and it's hard to say which will get the nod once I decide to take the plunge. In all three cases, whatever I get will have to abide by the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, meaning that unless the rifle is made prior to 1994, it cannot have any of the banned features of the AWB. It also means that the platform that gets the nod will have to have "pre-ban" magazines available for >10 rounds.
Of the three platforms listed (and yes, I'm well aware there are others, these are just the ones I'm considering), it's hard to say which appeals to me more. The FN/FAL is the "right arm of freedom" given its ubiquity throughout the world - manufactured in many different countries and adopted by many scores more. The FN/FAL has the advantage of having the greatest pool of available spare parts. The main disadvantage I can see to the FN/FAL is a lack of accessories compared to the other two platforms.
The AR-10 has two distinct advantages: it's the same AR platform as my Bushmaster, meaning that I don't have to adapt to a different system; and it's a uniquely American rifle. It's the least available of the three platforms, which is the main drawback. However, an inherently accurate design and the similarity - and modularity - of platforms give the AR-10 a decent edge.
Lastly is the venerable M14/M1A. Adapted from the "greatest battle implement ever devised by man", the M1 Garand, the M14 has the history and pedigree. Since it was issued by the US Armed F0rces, there are still hundred of thousands of magazines available (those that Clinton didn't destroy {spit}). It's also the heaviest rifle, meaning that it will handle the .308 round best. With the advent of the Springfield SOCOM series there's even a good deal of tacticool add-ons available.
So there are my choices for a semi-auto .308 rifle - which is your favorite, and why?
That is all.
32 comments:
I haven't had any trigger time with any of them, so I can't really say which I'd prefer, I'd probably call it a tossup between the M14 and the FN/FAL. Depends on if you want a rifle that's easier to use standing up, or hammers your shoulder less(the weight probably helps accuracy by some minute amount as well).
Though for personal preferance if I could have anything I wished in the calibre, and money was not a problem, I'd prefer SR-25 or PSG-1. I duly note that they're out of most people's acceptable pricerange though(mine included).
The DPMS LR-308 is nice, if it's available in MA...particularly with the fact that MagPul is developing PMags to go with it (which doesn't affect you, but I'm all about some cheap, durable polymer mags). It's a platform I'm somewhat used to, with AR-15 trigger time, and can be fitted essentially anything an AR-15 can.
You'll have to ask Breda how her FAL experience went and what she thought. There is even video... (nsfw)... of her shooting it.
You already know which route I took. I have no AR, but I did have a Garand, and I wanted the similar actions in the M1A for familiarity.
The trigger is very good for an off the shelf trigger. Rumors/reports of the trigger in the FAL being less than ideal abound, but I can't confirm.
My M1A is the plain walnut stock and it is much better balanced than the Garand, and I like that. The weight is further back toward the shooter.
The AR might be more attractive if there were more interchangeable parts between the 10 and 15. Good luck getting magazines.
New 10 round mags for the M1A are still made, I believe.
My choice is the CETME .308...
(Might have some issues with getting it in MA...)
I see them at the gun shows in the $450-$700 range rather frequently.
Just my $.02
TBG
I've always been a fan of the M1A. It's a beautiful rifle, particularly with a nice walnut stock on it.
As much as I love the FAL (and there ARE plenty of accessories for it, if you know where to look. . . ), it has NEVER been known for accuracy.
Either the M1A or the AR10 will do nicely -- they're both good rifles, with the AR10 platform a skosh more accurate and "tacti-cool", and the M1A a skosh better at sucking up recoil.
However, the AR10 is INFINITELY adaptable, especially if you ever end up living in a free state. It's the Lego receiver -- don't like the configuration? NO PROBLEM!
If you can get one then I'd go for the L1A1 SLR version of the FAL (British infantry rifle pre-SA80). A good, solid reliable rifle that is a lot of fun to shoot. Contrary to what Rick R says, I found the SLR to be a very accurate rifle when I fired one, and I know several people who carried it in the Army who would agree.
If that isn't available then the M1A version of the M14 would get my vote.
I bought the LR-308. Nice rifle, not too expensive even with the stainless bull barrel - though I did buy it before the recent craziness started. The trigger group uses regular AR15 parts so you can get any trigger under the sun for it, and it uses the same mags as the SR-25(not that I plan to drop $150 on a mag). I picked up stainless 20 round c-products mags for $20.
M1A National Match is an awesome rifle. I would highly recommend it but the price is harsh. The SOCOMII is a good choice. Either way the .308 round is one of the best.
I also have the DPMS LR308. I want a FAL and lust after a M1A. So my advice is get all of them.
PS. I gave my LR308 with scope a "urban camo" paint job and it looks pretty cool.
Who needs accessories? (I'm serious - are you competition shooting with it or something?)
Like The Big Guy, I like a CETME as well, but if it's not on your list, it's not on your list.
"What's it for?", is the next question.
If it's a SHTF/carry rifle, I'd say the AR-10, just because it's lighter (unless you get a really reduced-weight M-14, I guess).
For "just having a .308", the FAL will be both cheaper (last I checked) and have basically unlimited supplies of pre-ban 20 round magazines.
(Also an advantage of the G3/CETME platform; you can still buy German 20 round magazines for like $5. If one of four is bad, you're still only paying $7 on average.)
All three of them shoot better than I can, for what it's worth.
I know you have narrowed your choices to those 3, but I'm just wondering why the something like the PTR91 didn't make your cut? Decent parts supply, and you can still buy 20rnd mags for $1 a piece.
word verification=loane - what I need so I can afford to buy myself a PTR91
Not sure if it is legal in MA but I have the DPMS Panther Arms LRT-308 SASS and love it. During the purchase process I weighed it against the AR-10 and liked the design of the DPMS rifles (across the board) better. The factory mags are nice but a bit spendy. However, the C-Products ones (in 10 rd for you) are about $22 for stainless ones (http://www.cproductsllc.com/shop/index.php?cPath=22_39).
The M14 is nice but I wanted the optics mounting platform of the AR style for a big scope and I like the DPMS design over the FN/FAL.
That's my 2 cents worth.
WV: tectua (more than one roof)
Thoughts? I love my M1A, and not a single person who has shot it (including RideFast and Phil from RNS) has come away without a grin. That said, I do have a SOCOM II variant, so putting a .308 round out of a shorter (but not SBR) barrel is definitely something in and of itself - it is not as attention-grabbing as a .50, but people do take note. (For reference, the 16.5" barrel only loses you about 200 fps.)
If I had it to do over again, I would probably get the standard SOCOM 16 - the added rails of the II are undeniably tacticool, but they do add a substantial amount of mass to an already-heavy firearm. If you do want (or need, in my case - call it an addiction) the rails, I would strongly recommend the extended-dorsal-rail variant of the II, otherwise your optics choices will be limited to no-magnification or megabucks long-eye-relief scopes.
Note that Rock River is producing the LAR-8 which is AR pattern but uses the FN/FAL mags, inch or metric. I want one, but I'm waiting until the wife forgets I just got an AR-15.
If I can only have one, I want an M1A. With wood furniture.
But if I could only have one automatic handgun, it would be a blued steel 1911.
So I might not be the best person to ask.
That's a tough call -- all 3 are great platforms. Of those 3, I would probably lean towards the M1A. The FAL is a great gun also, and you can't beat the versatility of the AR platform, especially if you want ad on accessories. Admittedly, I haven't shot any of those weapons, though I have shot the Garand, and tons of ARs.
I was in a similar quandary -- wanting something in 7.62 NATO. I ended up going with the FNAR. I love it. It's not as pretty as the 3 you mentioned, but it shoots like a champ. Probably the best trigger I've pulled in an OTS rifle. It's a sweet shooter. Can't beat that FN/Browning reliability.
M1A
Jay,
I'll tell you how the LR-308 shoots once I get a chance to take it to the range. I had to build mine up from parts, so I spent a tad more than buying one factory-built, but now I have one and the factory-built ones are made of "unobtainium" right now.
Pax,
Newbius
What do you want to do with it?
If you want something accurate to make small groups at long range with, with a big piece of glass on top, you want an AR10. It's the cheapest of the three to make accurate. You can spend thousands on a FAL and end up with the same 2-4 MOA rifle you started with. A match prepped M1A will need regular maintenance of the bedding and gas system. The AR10 is also the easiest to put a scope on. The M1A scope mounts are all half assed kludges in comparison. DSA's FAL scope mount is between them. If you get an AR10, get one with a forward assist.
If you want a serious fighting rifle for the zombiepocolypse, you should get either a M1A or a FAL depending on whether you like pistol grips or traditional stocks. I personally think the FAL is the rifle we should have bought in the 1950s. There's still surplus FAL parts on the market, so it's a lot cheaper to keep it running than an M14 type.
If you want to shoot NRA service rifle matches, get an M1A.
You already know what I think..
FAL all the way!
It helps, though, having a gunsmith that's a FAL snob to begin with, if you want to make it sooper accurate...
Get something that can share VEPR mags ;) I havn't shot any of them, the closest are the little brothers, AR-15 and M1 carbine. While the AR is a very advanced platform, for me at least the carbine is more fun so I'd lean toward M1A.
Over here in the UK we are no longer allowed to have semi-auto rifles but when we were i had an Aussie L1A1 great gun but very long and a bit heavy tried an AR10 and found that to light i also had an AG42 and a Valmet M76 the M14s i tried i found very good no wonder they are still so popular,dont know about the mags availabe but i only had 20rd mags for the L1A1 and all had this funny little broad arrow mark on them, (many friends in the forces).
As much as I love my Stg58, it's not as accurate as the other two options. That is to say, it is good enough for minute of torso out to 300-400 yards, easily enough. Mine tends to string vertically when it heats up. Recoil is negligible, and for me, the ergonomics are a couple of orders of magnitude better than a CETME or any HK rifle.
I've owned M1As that were wonderfully accurate straight out the door, and I've fired a couple of .308 AR style rifles, and I'd suggest that if you want somethig to accessorize, go with the AR platform, if you want accuracy stick with the M1 family, followed closely by a quality AR10. If you want something that you can rattle around, moderate accuracy isn't a deal-killer, and that isn't finicky, then a FAL is it.
Regards,
Rabbit.
An Armalite AR-10 can be had with preban mags. Armalite only, the others use different mags.
No BM-59 on the list ?
PSL, ROMAK III, or better (and more expensive), the actual Dragunov SVD.
Same ammo as your Mosin-Nagant...
And they might let you keep it in MA, since it was built by communists...
WV: redlesse--really I promise, the communists thing was typed before I saw this.
I've been very satisfied with my M1A, although if price is a big problem the FAL would be my second choice. I keep my eyes open at the shows and in the paper, just in case another one comes along.
Good luck at finding AR-10 mags over 10 rounds in Mass...
I'm waiting on the Kel-Tec RFB before I pass judgment. I generally don't like the idea of Bullpups, but this one looks decent, and eats from FAL mags.
Otherwise my vote is for an M-14
I still prefer my G-3. I know HK is teh sux! But I enjoy mine
I like the ergonomics on the MP5, can do the 5.56 cousins OK, but the G3/HK91 rifles always feel large, clunky, unbalanced, and kick the crap out of me (in comparison to other 7.62mm battle rifles).
I mean, to me -- shooting a G3 based .308 is right up there with a Swiss or Soviet bolt action carbine for "enjoyable recoil".
But almost ANY other .308, including a Spanish Mauser rechambered to 7.62mm? No problem.
I am looking for an SASS. I am torn between the Knight Arms SR25 and the DPMS LRT-SASS. Is the SR25 worth the extra cost?
I am looking for an SASS. I am torn between the Knight Arms SR25 and the DPMS LRT-SASS. Is the SR25 with the extra cost?
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