Okay... Breaking new ground here and talking 'bout religion. Specifically, disinterest in the "organized" variety.
Basically, it boils down to the religious education of my children. Both my wife and I are "recovering" Catholics; she is an atheist, and I do not believe in organized religion. I firmly believe in G-d; however my belief does not extend to manmade constructs of so-called organized religion. One need look no further than the perversion of radical Islam to see how some "organized" religions can be twisted and used to manipulate human behavior.
Now, I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church. I was Baptized; went to Church every Sunday, received my First Communion, then my Confirmation. Continued religious studies through high school (a private Catholic school can do that). I've got a basic understanding how most major world religions function (although don't ask me to differentiate between Ganesh and the Flying Spaghetti Monster...), and specifically know the canon and rituals of RC pretty well.
I had been mulling over a return to the Church when the stories of sexual abuse broke; specifically how priests with troubling histories of abusing altar boys and other youths in their care were shuttled from parish to parish after discovery of their dirty little secrets. Now, granted, a certain amount of coverage stems from a natural bias against "mainstream" religion; however enough hard facts emerged to paint an unflattering picture.
Couple this with my childhood Church closing and being reassigned to a Church in a different town that I've never been to; and I've been lax in arranging for my kids to start their religious education. Specifically, my son's missed his first (couple of) year(s) of CCD (a.k.a. Sunday School). I do want them to have some religious education in their upbringing, and am most familiar with the RC faith.
However, it seems like we're drawn to the local Congregational Church - that's where the kids have done their Vacation Bible School; it's where the Cub Scouts meet; and, pathetically, it's the closest church to us. This may seem like a shallow reason for choosing a church; in my defense, however, I don't believe in any of them. I view organized religion as a thinly-veiled attempt to control men using the threat of the supernatural. Mortal men trying to explain G-d's greatness are bound to fail - we all have feet of clay.
Now, having said that... I still want my kids to grow up with some sort of religious education in their background. I want them to make an educated decision when they come of age as to religion, rather than never having any opinion because we never exposed them to it. I'd like to sit down with the priest of our new (to us) Catholic Church and explain my position; however it's not likely that I'd be well-received (and I come by this honestly; Mom G. got into a heated exchange with a priest back in the 1960s when they relaxed the restriction on eating meat on Friday. Basically, one of the other parishes had already adopted the new rules of Vatican II, and she asked why kids from this other town could eat meat on Friday, but if she ate meat on Friday she'd go to hell. As I recall, the priest's response was along the lines of "Is a little blind faith too much to ask?").
What I'm thinking is I'll arrange for a talk with the priest at the Catholic Church as well as the Congregational Church. I'll be open and honest as to my intentions, and let my decision be made for me - if both Churchs are amenable to providing religious education, I'll go with the Catholic Church as I'm most familiar. If one is more amenable, then I'll choose that one. If both are not amenable, though... Guess I'll have to find the closest Unitarian Church...
Thanks for listening. That is probably not all...
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18 comments:
homechurch (like homeschool)?
I am partial to the Catholic Church (full disclosure: I am a regular Churchgoer, was married in the Catholic church and my son currently attends a Catholic school down here. I am also a Eucharistic Minister in the Church).
My son's school is great and we are very proud members of the congregation. That being said, I feel a church is about God and community. Feeling attached to the other parishioners is important.
Nobody was prouder than me when my five year old son was able to retell the story of The Passion to our company at Easter. He even managed to throw in a perfectly pronounced reference to "Gethsemane", much to the delight of all.
Trust me, buddy: been there, done that. Still experience it constantly. I don't care much for religion, even though I'm a regular church goer, mainly because I'm skeptical of the religious.
A wise man once had discussions about the perils of religion as an entity & how human beings tend to screw it up when it's organized. Instead, he focused on the personal relationship with God within one's heart - not what some pastor or biship or priest or rabbi says THEY interpret things to be - and using that and the 'word' as your guide in finding that thing that we so seek: true faith. Faith in life, faith in mankind, faith in why we're here, faith in what is true, right and just and where praise should really be focused (hint: not us)
Like I said, wise man. Didn't care for the religious leaders of the day. Railed against them pretty badly, at that. Some folks actually took the time to write a lot of what he said. You can get the text at pretty much any bookstore, from what I understand.
His words are usually illustrated in red.
You said: "I firmly believe in G-d"
So did he. With that in mind, my friend, your faith is not in crisis. :) Your faith appears to be in the right place, it's just mankind that has caused you to become wary of the religions that profess to teach his brand of faith. And, as is often the case, man fails.
What does your heart tell you when you read his book? That's usually where I find my answers.
[/end sermon]
+1 to Breda on that.
I was never raised with any religious grounds. I was taught to make a strong distinction between right and wrong.
I also discovered "G-d" (or whatever you want to call it...I can't find a good word for it m'self) on my own.
I know have faith, and its all my own, and not as a result of the talking of other humans. The faith I have is between me and it, no middle man.
Because of that I'm personally against all orgainized religion, and feel that its unimportant how you express your spiritual nature as the "supernatural world" (which is the biggest misnomer of all, as if it exists, it is VERY much natural, and the only thing trully super-natural in fact DOESN'T exist) and the "natural world" are seamless in nature, and I feel there are just as many Athiest living good clean spiritual lives, as there are members of a religion that are compleatly untrue to themselves.
Of course I don't talk about such issues much, and definetly don't give much weight to my own feelings on the matter, as I'm just another person in the world, and G-d doesn't need my help beyond how l choose to live my life.
What you do is your choice. Me, personally, the whole spiritual side of things can be mostly left unsaid, so long as right and wrong, are taught, and taught well, everything else will fall into place.
Your Milage my Vary.
Thanks for the responses, everyone.
Couple of points to address.
Re: "HomeChurch" - thing is, with the right people, the church (note the small "c") can be a rich, rewarding experience. Andrew hits it out of the park with "That being said, I feel a church is about God and community. Feeling attached to the other parishioners is important."
The other side, of course, is when the church isn't made up of the right people, when they're more concerned with local politics, or the holier-than-thou, or any of the other myriad reasons we all have for being nasty to one another...
Ricky,
You, of course, are correct; thank you for putting into words the reason that I consider myself a Christian. Oddly enough, the religion that seems to me to be the least corrupted with human failings is Judaism. Go figure. :)
Weer'd,
I guess it's different because I have kids (no offense meant whatsoever). I want them to experience actually going to a church, etc. and belonging to a congregation, learning the rituals and such. That's an important part of their upbringing and education, IMHO.
And I steadfastly refuse to be like my own parents, who dropped me off at the church saying I "had to go" yet never set foot inside. I'll bring my kids to whatever church we choose...
Never got into religion much myself; first read the Bible in the last half of grade school and decided not to join anything. I have studied the major religions of the world on my own, and try to respect other religions as long as they don't try to beat me over the head. My feeling on Christianity is somewhat like my dad's was. He used to say "The Bible was written by sheepherders and fishermen, and everybody knows how they stretch the truth."
Fantastic post. Good questions. But I have an observation to make here*:
[...]we're drawn to the local Congregational Church - that's where the kids have done their Vacation Bible School; it's where the Cub Scouts meet; and, pathetically, it's the closest church to us[...]
It's local. The kids go to bible school there. Cub scouts meet there. Church like any other organization is a community unto itself. You have three very good reasons to go to this church/structure. Perhaps on an existential standpoint G-d is bringing you there repeatedly for bible school, cub scouts, etc, as a sign "to return to the fold, doesn't matter how or where, just do it." Who knows? I am sure there are some communities based on far less than what you describe.
*Now it begs mentioning, I, too, was born/baptised/communioned/confirmed in the Episcopalian faith. I've been on my own theological odyssey to find where I belong, and I've been long debating remaining an Episcopalian or explore Universalist Quakerism. My point in sharing this isn't to try to turn you onto UQ, but for you to consider checking out your local Episcopalian church. There are many aspects of it which is shared with it's Roman Catholic cousins, is liberal/open minded, or as I like to say, "All of the ritual, but half the guilt."
Also, if the Congregational Church is affiliated with the United Church of Christ, its recognized as an Anglican church, and a not-too-distant cousin from Episcopalianism.
Looking forward to more posts like this, would love to know what you ultimately end up deciding.
there isn't a priest in the church in our town right now if you're catholic. i believe he retired and they do not plan to replace him. if you're serious about talking to a catholic priest, i have good friends who swear (pun intended) by St. Basil's in methuen/haverhill. They love it.
as for close proximity to house? we went to St. James on Washington street for YEARS until they got a new pastor and my husband decided she was a moonbat liberal and he couldn't cope with it... so we picked a new church.
we've started going to the Presbyterian church in Newburyport. And our reason for choosing that? 10:30am start time. We can't get out of bed before 9am most sundays, so that is a perfect start time for us... That, and my husband went to highschool in Pittsburgh with the pastor, we come to find out. Small world.
It is a very good church. And we didn't feel gladhanded and "hey! join our this that and the other group! help out with this! do this! volunteer for this!" which always makes me run for the hills when we go to a church.
Doug and i went to an evangelical college here on the northshore, we've been to a lot of different churches. We stopped going all together for several years because of the whole warping of organized religion to either too far right or too far left for our liking. So i totally hear and feel the where and how you find yourself.
as for your wife being an atheist... is she atheist or agnostic? How does she feel about teaching the kids about Jesus? God? Flying Spaghetti Monster. Lolcat Bible? is she upset? against it? I'm interested in how that discussion works.
And homechurching works. We have spent a LOT of time hiking, living, learning, talking, sharing, experiencing the majesty of God without ever entering a building.
good luck in your search. we should sit and have coffee sometime, batboy.
Go to the closest one possible. Gas ain't gonna get any cheaper.
We let our kids make that call. They would feel pressure to go to church because everybody else around them was going. A couple or three Sunday's later and they would realize that it was just a glorified public school so they would say to hell with it.
My brother got into a mess with his mother-in-law when she told him that "CHILDREN SHOULD BE IN CHURCH!" and he told her that children was all that church was fit for.
There are times when I am glad my kids are grown.
Jay - it sounds to me that you have the community aspect of churchgoing covered with the cub scouts, bible camp, etc. I also think that you'd capable of teaching your children about G-d, morals, values, and the various faiths of the world - you don't need an organized religion for that.
I grew up Catholic too and although I don't go to Mass anymore, I still sometimes struggle with the fact that I want to have religion or G-d or something in my life. Maybe it's the sense of community I miss, I'm not sure.
I too, am faced with a similar situation, although with a stepson.
It aint religion that bothers me, it's man's influence on the way that religion is interpreted that irks me.
That becomes a real buggerboo in the case of exposing your children to any religious doctrine. Nowadays, it is quite a chance to take, albeit with your family's best interests in mind.
I applaud you for upholding your moral obligations to your family, in spite of your own (and others) misgivings.
I will second the Episcopal congregation idea. I am a cradle Episcopalian. Nowadays, the Episcopalians are more catholic (little c)than the Romans.
This will be close to the church that you grew up in, but without the extended hierarchy above your local bishop.
Hunter
Ketchikan, AK
Hunter has an awesome beard. I came back to see how the conversation was going here on this topic, and have to say that i love his profile shot there in the comment above mine.
that is all.
Hey, take them to Trinity church. They need to find out all about those underhanded Italians, honkeys, Jews & all the different ways to refer to Condaskeeza.
(sorry, couldn't resist)
Well you have to keep in mind that most of those abuse cases are from a specific time period, in which the bishops relied on 'expert' treatment from people that insisted they could fix the problem...dyed in the wool Kinsey supporters...
Now the public school system on the other hand, thats something to make you want to go sharpen the bayonets.
Jay,
I was in the exact same situation you're in now.
I'd quit attending mass regularly back in the '70's, and after my Grandmother died in '92, only set foot in church for weddings and funerals.
As time went by, I started looking into other religions, as I never quit believing in God, I just didn't like the way we humans were going about things in the religion department.
Long story short, none of those other religions worked for me. Protestant, Wicca, Buddah, Secular Humanism, etc. just didn't cut it for me.
Started back to mass about a year and a half ago, got my son Baptized and First Communion-ed, and everything is OK on the home front. I like the church we go to. It's not the closest one, but it's really "light". I guess that's a good way to put it. Nothing at all like I remembered it, which was a good thing.
On the sex abuse thing: While it was/is something to be aware of, did anyone notice when the MSM reported on "Operation Candyman" (online kiddie porn sting), of the eight clergymen busted, the only religion identified wre the two Catholic priests? Wonder what the other six were. Bias, anyone?
In addition to the RE, churches provide a sort of "social insurance" as well. I've been attending our small-town methodist church for years, since my kids got to "sunday school" age, for the same reasons you specify.
DD
I have long felt that the original purpose of religion was to promote a concept of understanding and appreciation for all of existence in its adherents, period. Any other purpose is a deviation from that and is ultimately self-destructive. The writings of Dr. Laitman help understanding this.
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