Hi Jay,
I am sure you are swamped with requests for gun recommendations and yes this is another one! I am an experienced shooter of 40 years and I am frantically working on getting my CCW before BHO takes office and tries to make all CCWs illegal and I am trying to figure out what to carry.
I am 6 foot 240 LBs guy so I have some body mass to hide something on so the question is what to hide?? Something small with stopping power (is this an oxymoron?)Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Mike
To which I responded:
Good morning Mike!
I've had a few requests, but I'm always happy to make time to help out a fellow gunnie. My standard disclaimer applies - with your permission, I'd like to use your question and my response as a blog post (Obviously I'll omit your last name and even your first if you request).
You're an experienced shooter, which helps in the selection process a bit - I'm going to operate on the assumption that you're familiar with the general operation of both revolvers and semi-automatic pistols, both double-action and single action variants. You don't state your location, so I'm not certain if you're in a restrictive state like MA or CA (which limits the options for carry), but I'll assume you're located in Free America where your options are open.I'm operating from somewhat of a hole as a MA resident - there are many fine firearms out there that are not available to us MAholes due the Approved Firearms Roster {spit}, but I've got a fair amount of experience with these things, plus I've got some damn smart commenters who I'm certain can help fill in the areas where I'm
lacking (hence why I'd like to post this).
The first question I have is whether you have a preference for revolvers or semi-autos. I'll offer a couple recommendations for each as a general rule, relying heavily on the guns I'm most familiar with.
For revolvers, there's really no choice other than a Smith & Wesson j-frame IMHO. You can get a 15 ounce aluminum-framed gun that can shoot .38 Special +P ammo for around $400 new, slightly less used. You can choose between an exposed hammer variant like the 637 (also called "Chief's Special); a shrouded hammer like the 638 (called the "Bodyguard"), or a hammerless like the 642 ("Centennial"). Which version you get depends on your preferred method of carry - if you're going to carry IWB or ankle holster, the exposed hammer is a good fit as it allows for retention strap; if you're going to pocket carry, the shrouded or hammerless version is a better bet.
I see no reason to look at any other revolver for CCW. Taurus or Charter Arms make less expensive variants, but you're talking on the order of $100 - $150 savings for a lesser firearm (Taurus isn't too bad, Charter Arms, well, you get what you pay for...) Ruger makes a wonderful little gun in the SP101; however pick one up and compare it to the S&W. The Ruger is built like a tank, yes; however it weighs a lot more, and that's a definite consideration for something you're going to toss in a pocket.
Another choice if you're a recoil whore like me is the .357 Magnum Airweight, the 360 (exposed hammer) or 340 (hammerless). These hurt like a SONOFABITCH, but it does give you the option of the mighty .357 Magnum in a 12 ounce gun (sprechen zie ouchie?). I've got the 360. It's a handful to shoot, and you really need to shoot it a lot with .357 Magnum loads to get used to the recoil, but nothing says get the hell outta my personal space like a 3' flame out of a 12 ounce snubbie... ;)
For semi-automatics, the choices are nearly endless. It basically boils down to which action you prefer (double-action only, single action only, DA/SA) and how you plan to carry. If you're thinking of pocket carry, the Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P3AT are fine choices, with the edge going to the Ruger for finish and accuracy. Kahr Arms is
introducing a pocket-380 (K380) which is another fine choice. I'd avoid anything less than .380ACP for personal protection. Both Kel-Tec and Kahr Arms make very small 9mm that might be possible to pocket carry as well, the Kel-Tec PF9 or the Kahr PM9 are worth looking into if you're more comfortable with a 9mm.
For IWB carry, there are literally dozens of guns available. I'll make a couple of suggestions, but in this venue you're really best off trying each out and finding which you like best.
**Brief interlude on caliber choice: In this group, really, there's no wrong caliber. A 9mm pistol will be able to carry anywhere from 10-15 rounds and handle +P+ loads. It's cheaper to shoot, meaning you'll practice more, and if you can't neutralize the threat with 15 rounds of JHP 9mm+P+, you'd best have on your running shoes. .40 S&W is cheaper than .45 ACP, will fit a few more rounds, and generally entails a thinner firearm for CCW. Many folks will tell you that you should carry .45 ACP, which really is never bad advice; however it is the most expensive to shoot and will afford the fewest rounds. With all that in mind, go with whatever you're most comfortable with...
With all that said, there's three main flavors of semi-autos to consider:Single action - really, we're talking about Commander or Officer's sized 1911s here. Pretty much anything from Kimber is good; S&W makes a scandium-framed Commander 1911 that would work; Springfield Armory has a number of pistols; even Colt if you can find one. ParaOrdnance makes a double-stacked compact (WartHog) that looks great on paper; however I've known at least three people who have owned them and had bad experiences with them.
Double action only - these are the Glocks, Springfield XD, S&W M&P, etc. Really there's no bad choice in this group either. I would argue that Glock has the edge in that they've been out the longest, so there's more of an aftermarket for mags/holsters/etc. If another Assault Weapons Ban comes down the road, you stand
the best chance of finding full capacity magazines for a Glock than a S&W M&P. This group boils down to whatever you shoot best/whatever fits your hand best. I carry a Glock G30 (subcompact .45 ACP double-stack) with 9+1 in the gun and a spare G21 full capacity magazine for back-up (13 rounds + 2 round extension).
DA/SA - Beretta 92 compact, Sig 229/239, CZ-75 compact. I'm a HUUUGE fan of SigArms, so my recommendation would be either the Sig 229 or 239. Nothing wrong with the Beretta or CZ (or about 20 other guns I'm forgetting because I'm a MAhole), just personal bias towards the Sig. Ruger makes some fine, sturdy guns, but they're a little on the heavy and chunky side for concealed carry; Smith & Wesson has an under-appreciated line of compact pistols that will do in a pinch and won't break the bank; Armalite has a CZ-based line that's not too expensive either (although might as well just get the CZ...).
Well, there's my suggestions in a nutshell. The best suggestion is to find a range that rents the gun you're interested in and try it out first - nothing worse than finding out that the gun you just bought is too painful/bulky/etc. to shoot...
Hope this helps!
Best regards,
Jay G.
MArooned
So, what did I forget?
I make no bones about my preference for S&W wheelguns. Taurus isn't bad, but for a gun I'm staking my life on, it's the boys from Springfield every time. Ruger makes a fine revolver, one that can take a lifetime of the worst abuse possible, but their guns are heavy - if I'm going to carry my CCW primarily IWB, then I want a large-capacity semi-auto with 10+ rounds, not a 5 shot .357 Mag...
I didn't give a clear recommendation for the three classes of semi-auto; if pressed I'd offer the S&W scandium commander 1911 for single action, the G30 for DAO, and the Sig 239 in .40 S&W for a SA/DA pistol. Once again, I'll be the first to plead MAhole here - with our restrictive gun laws, there are many fine pistols with which I'm just not familiar enough to recommend.
So, here's where I turn to my readers to help fill in the gaps. What other fine semi-autos (or wheelguns) have I missed in my recommendation? What gun do you stake your life on, and why? Mike wrote back to let me know he lives in free America, so he has no restrictions on what he can carry.
What say you?
That is all.
8 comments:
Walther P99C, or if he wants to go smaller maybe a PPS?
I think he'd be able to conceal a
P228/229 just fine though, and they're great guns.
The Ruger P-series DA/SA semiautos are bulky, but they'd be a great choice for him too, I think. I have a P89 (9mm) and P90 (.45acp) and love them both. From what I remember, the P345 is about the size of a Colt Commander if he'd like one a bit smaller.
I've heard good things about Taurus' line of DA/SA semis (Like the Millenium, and 24/7 line) I guess their customer service is great too if the gun breaks.
Personally Fall through Spring when I can wair a sweatshirt of a flannel/shammy I shoulder carry my S&W1911Sc Commander, for days when I may have to take off my sweatshirt, or its just too warm or otherwise, I pack my S&W642 .38.
I want a kahr for pocket too!
For a first time Sig buyer, there seem to be a bunch of P6's on the market. These are surplus 9mm's used by German police (I believe). They can be had for $300 to $350. They are single stack 9mm's, slightly smaller than the 228. The few I have seen had fairly significant external wear, but appeared to have been barely shot at all.
I don't own one myself, but if a Sig is your thing, this is a solid choice.
Mike W.,
Heh. Now that's funny... My carry gun for years was a S&W SW99C in 9mm... It was replaced by the G30 last year - the G30 weighs just a skosh more and is a tad thicker, but they're essentially the same size (they can share holsters, BTW).
The PPS is a good choice; I've kinda put it out of my mind because I talked to Walther about whether they were going to have a MA compliant version (WANT!) but they said no...
the pistolero,
Ruger's got a mighty fine series of semi-autos, that's not in dispute; however for anything less than open carry I'd argue that their line is simply too large and heavy for routine carry. IMHO, of course.
Weer'd,
The same argument applies, though - you're really not saving a heck of a lot getting the Taurus over a Glock or a S&W M&P.
Plus the Glock gets the nod simply for the availability of "high-cap" magazines - as it appears more and more likely we *WILL* be seeing the AWB again...
Tanner,
The P6 isn't a bad choice, of course; IIRC it's somewhere in between the P229 and P226 in size. And it's single-stack, which can either be a good thing (slimmer than double) or bad thing (lower capacity) depending.
For the price, though, it's a solid choice.
The only admonition on price is that many of the places that sell the P6 for $250-$300 will also have police-turn in P229s for $400 or so... In that case, a P229 in 40 S&W offers 13 (12+1) rounds of .40 S&W goodness or 16 (15+1) rounds of 9mm to the 9 (8+1) rounds in the P6...
Thanks for the suggestions, guys!!
Just shot the Sig P232 last week with the Mrs., and she liked it. .380 ACP was easier for her to handle than the 1911.
Your writer didn't say if his Significant Other was possibly going to use the piece, but if so, a smaller, easier to control pistol would be a plus.
RE: P6 vs. P229.
Other than width the dimensions of the P225/P6 and P229/P228 are pretty much identical. The newer
P229's with milled stainless slides are noticably heavier than the old stamped slide versions but not too heavy for carry IMO.
I like the P229 idea since you can always buy one in .40 or .357 and use a drop-in barrel for cheap 9mm practice. The same is true of Glocks if they're your cup of tea.
Jay - If I could find a genuine All-German P99 (before they entered into their partnership with S&W) I'd be all over it.
Massad Ayoob hinted on the ProArms Podcast that we may be seeing a lightweight version of the SP101 coming from Ruger in the not-so-distant future.
I must say, I'd be pretty tempted by a lighter weight spurless SP101 chambered in .327 Magnum with Crimson Trace grips.
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