Okay. Got a question/exercise for the AR gurus out there. I'm trying to get ahold of some more pre-ban AR-15 magazines, and am curious as to which are the best magazines out there. I'm also trying to figure out which magazines to avoid - either because they are poorly constructed, or possibly because the company didn't exist prior to 2004...
I have about 10 pre-ban 30 rounders of various manufacture, and five 20 rounders, all Colt. The manufacturers of the 30s are:
Adventure Line Manufacturing
BFI
Defense Procurement Manufacturing
Parsons Precision Products
Other manufacturers that make AR mags in .223 are:
AR-Stoner
C-Products (I think these guys are post AWB)
DPMS
HK Magazine
John Masen
Lancer Systems
Mega-Mag
Mag-Pul
National Magazine
Olympic Magazine
PRI Magazine
Pro-Mag
Tapco
Triple-K
(And yes, I did pretty much just go down the MidwayUSA list...)
So... If pressed to rank the above magazines, how would you rank them, best-to-worst? Which magazines should be avoided, either because of shoddy construction or illegality for me to own?
And lastly, because I'm not above begging, if any of y'all have pre-ban (made before Sept. 1994) magazines you'd like to get rid of, let me know...
That is all.
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23 comments:
I have 3 pre-ban Colt 30-rd. magazines with the green followers that have never had a misfeed or a failure to feed. If those work for you, just stick with them.
I also have an all steel, completely black, 30-rd. magazine that was Taiwan-made that hasn't given me any problem either. Back when I bought them, they were about $25 apiece. Lord knows what they're going for these days. I'm afraid to look.
This claims to be one from Gunbroker. The original search was pre-ban AR-15 magazine... came up with a few.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=126800846
I'm far from an expert, but...
I have personal experience with OK Industries, whoever made the steel mags I bought years ago that were apparently issued with the L85A1, a wide variety of issued mags from the Army (they're in storage, I'll look later), and Colt 20 rounders as well.
My OK Industries mags I bought prior to enlisting, and they are black, undated preban mags. They work well, except they have the black follower that is prone to tipping and thus sometimes failing to load the last round (rides over) in the mag or hold the bolt open. Replace the follower and they work great.
I don't recommend mags like my steel ones. They're durable as hell, but they didn't drop free from either my Armalite AR-180B or my Rock River AR-15. No feeding problems, but not dropping free is a deal killer in my book. Oh, and they are heavier than I'd like to carry. I guess if you like to use your magazine as a rest from the prone like I do, they would be good.
Among my issued mags I collected overseas (I think I was up to 37 or 38 at one point), I never noticed any brand that failed more often than any other. The mags I have that I consider failures were the ones that developed cracked feed lips or swelled to the point that they would not drop free of the mag well. Among my military issue mags, perhaps five exhibited problems with heavy use; just keep them at 28, not 30 rounds, and they don't swell.
Honestly, my favorite magazines of all are my 20 round Colt mags. They lock into the rifle better, they feed a little smoother, they don't swell, and they just feel all around like a better quality magazine. I would have carried piles of 20 round mags over 30 rounders in combat if I could have gotten enough, and the right pouches.
Not in my experience, but my sniper buddy tells me that the Magpul mags are incredible. I'm sure you've seen the youtube video of the guys testing mags by running them over with a truck in various ways...
Anyway, any post-ban mag should be date stamped, and I have some military issue magazines with date stamps up into 2006, maybe 2007. So that's one way to tell if they're illegal for you to own. Mags made post 2004 by civilian catering companies probably aren't stamped, but I don't know; I know all of the post 2004 production normal capacity pistol magazines I own are unmarked, but I've never bought any post 2004 production rifle mags.
So, if there is no date, it is assumed to be post ban? Ammoman had a bunch -- I don't know if they will be legal in Mass. I'll look around my collection.
Promag and Tapco would be on my "do not buy" list. Also USA mag.
I don't know about "pre-ban" AR Stoner mags, but C-Products makes AR Stoner mags these days, and the Brownell's mags as well, so those are not "pre-ban" as far as I know. How do you define "pre-ban"?
The BMI (Bushmaster) mags are good as are any GI surplus. You can get replacement springs and followers for them so unless the body is damaged you should be able to keep them running.
I like C-Products mags (both stainless and aluminum), D&H, MagPul and MagPul P-Mags. Not necessarily in that order. I include current AR Stoner and Brownell's mags as being C-Products.
I've never used Lancer mags or HK, but both are supposed to be very good. HK costs enough that they better be good!!
Two worthwhile links re preban ar15 mags:
http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/magazines/rawlesfaq.html
http://www.fulton-armory.com/ARMags.htm
Magpul PMags.
Feed reliably, and damned near indestructible.
Unfortunately PMags are a no go, since they weren't made pre-1994.
OrangeNeck,
I've got 5 Colt 20 rounders that have all been very reliable.
I actually prefer the 20s to the 30s, simply because 5.56mm is so freakin' expensive... I've actually thought about buying a few 5- and 10- round mags.
Dan,
Thanks. I'll check the link out later tonight...
weambulance,
Thanks for the testimonial!
Unfortunately, there's a huge gray area WRT post-ban magazines.
If there's no date marked or serial#, and the company existed prior to the ban, then there's no practical way to tell if the mag is or is not a pre-ban.
LEO-only marked mags are really the only slam-dunk. Those'll get you in hot water.
Mags like the PMags, which were *only* made after the ban sunset, are less of a slam-dunk, but easily proven in court.
It's incredibly stupid when you think about how many hundreds of thousands of magazines were made in the, what, 30+ years the M-16 was in service before the AWB was passed...
libertyman,
See above.
No date just means there's no date.
If there's a serial number, there's a (slight) chance it could be tracked back to the factory and a date of manufacture could be found.
Slight.
IMHO, if the magazine does not have a date on it, and it looks used, then it's most likely a pre-ban magazine - the ban has only been lifted for 4.5 years, so any magazine that looks like it's been used should be fine.
Unless it didn't exist prior to 1994...
bitmap,
Thanks for the info!
As for pre-ban, well, it refers to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. Basically, in September 2004, as the Federal Ban sunset, Mitt Romney signed a law extending the AWB in MA in perpetuity. So it's as if the AWB never sunset.
Semi-automatic rifles can only have two out of the magic six "evil" features (detachable magazine, pistol grip, bayonet lug, collapsible or folding stock, flash hider, or grenade launcher).
Magazines made after September 1994 cannot hold more than 10 rounds.
No pistols where the magazines go in ahead of the grip (i.e. Tec-9 or Skorpion).
CW,
Thanks for the link (and the e-mail)!
AD,
As zeeke42 points out, those are a felony for me to possess.
Bitmap is wrong. C-Products does NOT make Brownells mags. They are made in Iowa. I know this because I work at Brownells and have seen the bodies being stamped. There are only three companies currently on the government list of spproved suppliers of M16 (AR-15) magazines. They are: OK Industries, Center Industries, and Brownells. The numbers on the military bodies are called a "cage code" and indicate the manufacturer. Civilian mags made to military specs will generally not have a cage code. Magazines are disposable items, if one works, no matter whose, use it. When it quits, throw it away. But make sure your gas system is working correctly before dumping one. I've fixed two "magazine" problems by working on the gun. One had a short chamber, the other had an off-center gas port. For the military, magazines are a single use item. When empty they hit the button, insert a new one and leave the old behind. There's no need to pay huge $, Brownells has 11,000 magazines in stock (as of 2:00 pm, 4/15) at $17.95 each. Larry Weeks
Larry,
Thanks for the info on the magazines.
(And side note: How freakin' cool is it that I got a comment from someone who works in the biz?!?!?!)
Sadly, it doesn't do me any good unless y'all have some "pre-ban" magazines kickin' around that you'd like to sell to MAholes...
@anon: And those 11,000 mags were manufactured prior to September 1994?
I found some helpful info from NY http://www.nyfirearms.com/blog/2008/10/preban-ar-15-magazine-identification/
Who knew they put a date code inside?
I have a bunch of pre-ban 20 and 30 rounders that I will sell to you for the price of new 20 or 30 rounders. Since I am in NH, WTF do I care? Let's talk...
(CProducts new 30 rounders are $13)
Andrew,
I'll take however many you have. Let's figure out when we can get together...
:)
Jay,
Whatever mags you get, if they have not been rebuilt with new springs and anti-tilt followers in the last 10 years, you should consider buying the kits. Here's a link to one site. I am not recommending this site (or the price!), but it does have a good description and picture of the kit.
The anti-tilt followers are a great improvement, and the new springs ensure the feeding.
ASM826
LINK promised in previous comment.
http://estore.websitepros.com/1891705/Detail.bok?no=379
Stick with standard USGI mags or Magpul PMAG's. Can't go wrong with either.
Chris Bryne had a good write-up a while ago on good AR mags. Worth a look. That should settle any good vs. bad questions you have.
With regards to me and pre-ban mags: I'm still planning on sending them. I've found about 7 so far, but one of them was a 40 rounder and I suddenly remembered I had 2 of those bastards so I now realize I've got AR mags in this house that I can't find.
I found an OWB holster for my 1911 that I thought I'd lost though. So that's cool. All part of digging through my crap.
Once I'm content that I've found all of them I will be asking for your home address.
ASM826,
Thanks for the tip. The great part about that is I can replace springs over an undefined period of time - and it's not likely that they'd think to ban springs (yet)...
Mike W.,
There's just slight problem with the PMags: If I were to have one in my possession, I'd become an instant felon.
USGI, though, is the way to go if possible - I've got a couple M1 carbines, and have had nothing but good luck with standard issue...
Justin,
Thanks again, for both the tip and the mags! I know what you mean about going through gear - I have at least three drawerfuls of holsters, stocks, grips, etc. that I no longer use.
Heh. Maybe I ought to have a gunnie yard sale? *g*
i may have found you some 30rd BHP mags... im waiting on a response from the guy that is selling them to see if they are pre ban...
If they are, I'd appreciate a line too. I'd only want one as a novelty.
C prod are definitely post ban. AR-stoner may also be.
My prebans 30s are a combination of Okay, Parsons, and Adventure Line. Even the ones that were fair became 100% with new anti-tilt followers from magpul (I went for yellow) and 15 year old springs. The AR in 223 is a pretty easy gun to feed- new followers and decent mag springs and you'll be fine. The mag only really contributes the feed lips, and that's not very critical on the AR.
- but I'd still steer clear of promag and USA :)
Also note that the follower upgrade is only applicable to the 30 rd mags. NOT suitable for the straight 20s, and curved 20s are post-ban.
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