Okay, so I just finished reading Heinlein's Tunnel in the Sky and digging it. For those not familiar with the novel, basically it's Lord of the Flies in Space - in this universe, teens and young adults are offered a test if they want to venture out into the universe at large. They are sent to an unnamed planet not of their choosing and must survive for a short period of time. Something goes wrong, and they wind up on the planet for considerably longer...
Naturally, this set the gears in motion...
Thought question #1: What gunnie gear would you bring with you for the original purpose - a 1-2 stay on a completely unknown world?
You're going to an unfamiliar planet with unknown dangers, and can bring only which you can carry. What firearms would you bring; how much ammo; what other gear?
Though question #2: What would you bring for a longer period of time?
Obviously the key plot device is that they didn't know it would be much longer than the "2-10 days"; however disregard this and focus on what you would bring - that you could carry on your person - for an indeterminate amount of time. Figure about a year's time - long enough that things wearing out might be an issue, etc. How does this change your answer from Thought question #1?
Jay's Answer #1: For the short, set period of time, I'd opt for firepower and lots of it. Springfield Armory SOCOM II with red dot sight zeroed at 100 yards; lots and lots of loaded 20 round magazines. The .308 Winchester wouldn't be ideal for dangerous large game, but since this would be more for protection, it's a last-ditch defense. 20 rounds of .308 should take down most anything smaller than elephant, and with 15-20 loaded mags (2 per day), should have plenty of ammo but still be able to carry it. For a pistol, a Smith & Wesson Model 629 with 4" barrel in a sturdy leather belt holster would work nicely. Figure 200 rounds of hot .44 Magnum.
For the short period of time, hunting really wouldn't be a big issue - with sufficient preparation, enough food could be brought to last a week or so. Add in a moderate first aid kit, water purification equipment, and a spare change of clothes or two; figure two to three flashlights and spare batteries to last 2 weeks of 12 hours/day use; backpacking Coleman lantern & single burner stove for light cooking; flint & tinder for fire starting and as many Ohio Blue Tip matches as can safely be stored.
Jay's Answer#2. Here's where things get more problematic. Since it's going to be a long time, and it's possible that you might need your gun on a daily basis, we'll rule out all semi-autos. Because of the time involved, a .22LR is absolutely critical if for no reason other than being able to take a lot of ammo. Remington 572 Fieldmaster pump-action rifle would make an excellent companion - can take small game at ranges of 25 - 50 yards, is reliable all day long, holds 15 rounds in the tube, and requires only a minimum of cleaning to work every time you need it. Match it with a Smith & Wesson 617 10-shot .22LR with 6" barrel, and you've got a manually operated pair of firearms with 10-15K rounds of ammunition.
For centerfire ammo - protection as well as larger game harvesting - I'd favor also keeping ammo commonality. Figure a Marlin 1894 in .357 Magnum paired with a 7-shot S&W Model 686 with 6" barrel. With practice, the rifle will hit medium game out to 150 yards, the pistol an easy 50 yards. At close range, either will make all but the largest predators re-think having you for dinner. It's a trade-off, certainly - a .45/70 Guide Gun provides far more hitting power; a Rem 700 in 300 Magnum will take even large game easily at 2-300 yards. But being able to pack 1½-2K rounds of premium JSP ammo in the same space as 4-500 rounds of .300 Mag may mean the difference between eating well for 6 months and starving the rest and eating okay the whole year.
As for other gear, covering the basics would be a necessity - general antibiotics, and sturdy cooking gear; hardy axe and hatchet; trenching tool; as many matches as will fit and several different fire-starting methods as well (including magnifying glass, natch). Having to last for up to a year means that a stove/lantern would be an extravagance; a cast iron skillet to place over a roaring campfire would be far more practical.
I don't claim to be a survivalist; I'm certain that anyone even vaguely interested in long-term survival in the wild can poke all kinds of holes in my list-of-fancy. But heck, that's why I put it out there - there's a world of information out there, and I'm always eager to learn.
So what would y'all bring for both the short- and long-term?
That is all.
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21 comments:
This is basically similar to a challenge that Kim du Toit posted occasionally on his blog: go back in time a few hundred years and travel across North America, on your own.
One theme that emerged repeatedly was: pick a rifle and handgun that take the same ammunition, such as .45 Long Colt, .357 Mag, or .44 Mag.
Other thoughts: Big knife (like a machete), little knife, pocketknife. Fishhooks and some monofilament line. Guidebooks to native medicinal and edible plants. These days batteries should not be a worry with flashlights: take one of the hand-cranked jobs. For that matter, take two or three: they're small and light and having a backup never hurts.
If you're part of a group, equip everybody with a hand radio with a rechargeable battery, and have somebody bring a solar charger. Dogs for all wouldn't be amiss either: a mix of guard-types and hunting dogs.
Other essential items: compass, watch, pencil and paper for making maps. If you want to go to the extreme with surveying instruments, include a sextant and a very accurate watch.
Refer to accounts of the Lewis and Clark expedition for other ideas.
And I refer you to the LawDog's archives for several methods of firestarting that don't require matches.
I'd bring two or three hot chain saws and lots of gas cause I'd want to start logging the new planet as soon as I got there.
Earth First...we'll log the next planet when we get to it........
wolfwalker,
Yeah, I thought about "Crossing America" when I tossed this idea around. I figured a couple of things were different - first off, the forces one might encounter in 17th century America were known. You could plan routes, albeit difficult ones, that would avoid the largest predators. Heck, you'd KNOW what the largest predators would be - that in and of itself would be a HUGE advantage.
The other difference is that you've got to be able to carry everything - there's no rigging up a donkey and cart, or horse and carriage, etc. to carry all your gear. You're a great deal more limited in what you can bring (i.e. no 10,000 rounds of 50 BMG and a M82 Barrett).
Plus it's my party and I'll crib if I want to... ;)
AngryWhiteMan,
Heh. I'm down with that as long as at least one of those chainsaws is attached to an AR's bayonet lug... ;)
Jay, I think you miss the point of the story WRT equipment.
The stuff Jimmy finds really useful isn't the guns, it's things like rope, antibiotics, a good knife and the like.
I'm all for having a pistol and a rifle in say .357 mag, but the amount of ammo you could reasonably carry would be pretty small once you account for other gear, far more important to long-term survival.
That ammo should get used pretty much only as a last resort against starvation/predators. It's just too precious to be used for anything else.
Aside from the basics like a good axe, a couple of knives a big mess ot fishhooks (think in the hundreds)rope, twine, needle and thread and snare setups, tops on the list would be some good books on how to make stuff, especially a simple bow, fletching arrows etc.
The foxfire books are probably the best out there for most pioneer-type stuff. The U.S. Army field manual on survival is excellent as well.
So ya, guns would be pretty much at the bottom of the list rather than at the top.
Our forbears managed to feed themselves pretty well with spears, slings and snares.
The best weapon you'll ever have is always the one between your ears.
You picked the guns I was thinking about: Marlin in .357 with matching revolver. One caliber of ammo, as much as you could carry.
I can't hit anything past 150 years anyway, even if you stake it down and let me shoot from a bench rest ...
Tunnel In The Sky is the reason I'm more a knife nut than a gun nut.
Having said that, I'll pretty much the same answer I gave on Kim's blog: a Savage 24C combo gun in .22 LR and 20-gauge, for hunting; and a Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt for close-range self-defense.
Well, if I'm trying to learn the same lesson Doc Matson was trying to teach Rod & the class, I'd not bring a gun at all (yes, RAH nut here). But assuming I'm going wit a group, and can bring more than I can carry, I'd bring a big-assed revolver and carbine in the same caliber - carbine for small-to-mid-sized nasties, and a big honking SA revolver for people-authority. Either .45LC or .357. A .308 battle rifle, a 12 gauge, reloading junk and powder would all go on the mule. :) Standard loads of light and fire, meds, food, clothes, and tools get slung on the other mule.
And bandanas. LOTS of bandanas. When I did my geology field camp an old hand recommended I bring LOTS of bandanas and she was dead-on - they have 101 uses in the field and everyone will want one from you.
And a hat. Gotta have a hat.
Question, is this a solo venture, or can we have the gear for a group? Because if there are three people, one carries a large bore thumper. One carries a "meat rifle". This gives #3 the ability to carry something else that they otherwise wouldn't have. Just a thought, going solo is rough.
Short term - Marlin guide gun in 45/70, a good 357 revolver, I like Ruger, couple knives, multi-tool, hachet, camp saw, rope, canteen, water purification tabs (lighter than extra water) first aid kit, mess kit, lighters, tinder, entrenching tool, gloves, solar or crank flashlight, and food for the duration, and a good sleeping bag.
Long term - Well, I happen to OWN a Marlin 1894 in 357, and let me tell you, "from my cold dead fingers" is a huge understatement as to when you can have it! Loaded with 38s it good for small game, but I also have loads that are very close to 30-30 loads in terms of power. And it doesn't weigh too much. Still taking the 357 revolver. Thinking about Lewis and Clark, the one gun they used more than anything else was a 32 caliber air rifle. You want compact ammo, it's hard to get more compact than a bunch of lead pellets. Give me an Airforce Talon and the manual air pump. Weight - about 6lbs for the pair. Can launch a 22 caliber pellet to the same velocity as a 22lr, but the ammo takes 1/3 the space, and it doesn't matter if it gets wet.
I'd have the first aid kit from hell, stocked with just about anything, because sooner or later I'd need it. Medical reference book. Plant seeds, small and light, but given some time, you get lots of food from them. Multiple knives, and a good way to sharpen them. Fishhooks and line. Plant guides, absolutely!
Wire for snares. A leg trap or two if I have the weight budget, traps make hunting easier and let you do something else in the meantime, like gardening or fishing.
Jay,
It's been a few years since I read the book, but isn't your first questioned more or less answered by Heinlein already?
IIRC, some time after their long delayed rescue, Rod runs into gets to talking with his Amazonian lieutenant who is now serving in a military unit. When asked about how she sends out scouts, her answer is "naked and afraid". Well, more or less. The point being that she wants every fiber of their being to be alert to danger, and the most direct way to accomplish that is to remove all possibility of them winning any conflict they find themselves in; hence, the natural inclination is to avoid all conflicts with prejudice.
Great book, one of my favorite Heinlein novels, and I've read them all at least once.
BTW, wasn't there a heavily armed character killed off early in the book because he relied upon firepower rather than avoidance? I'm just sayin' is all ;-)
Say, as long as we're playing the "you can bring anything you want" game; sign me up for a smallish 'stobor' targeting device hanging from one of the rails if at all possible.
;-)
hey J-
can I borrow the book???
I started reading it at BN but couldn't see paying the $ for a new book when I can get for a dollar at the used book store but then I couldn't find it :(
B
B,
It's available at paperbackswap.com right now. Your first two books are on the house when you sign up.
*sigh*
Yes, I realize the intent of the book.
However, this is a gun blog. Hello!
:)
B, you got it. I'll bring it to work with me - tell sci-fi to stop in sometime...
Now, in all seriousness, I agree with Bob's suggestion of a combo .22 and shotgun; although, I probably would go with something smaller and lighter even than his selection. Something like an M-6 Scout. It's handy enough that a pistol might be optional.
Oh, and I would be sure to travel with someone else if at all possible. After all, as the guide said to his customer, "I don't have to outrun the bear". I kid, I kid.
If there are well heeled people to hang with, I'd travel light with a scoped Remington Nylon 66, two bricks of CCI Stingers, an axe, matches, and I'd pack plenty of BEER.
If I am traveling alone, then it would be all of the above plus a Mossberg 500, 200 rounds of slugs, 200 rounds of buckshot, 200 rounds of birdshot, maybe more beer.
I think I'd bring my Ruger MK III Hunter with a case of bricks. I figured 50,000 rounds should last me a while.
A .50BMG Barret semi-auto. Because on some planets, there are creatures that eat elephants the way my snake eats mice. (ie: What would you use to stop a large carnivorous dinosaur?)
My flintlock with extra flints, lead ball mold, lead, and some chickens. (Chickens are multi-use, eggs, food, saltpeter)
I think that RAH made a pretty good case for not taking a firearm at all. Certainly, for a 24-48 hour stay, your space and mass would be better filled with food, water, and medical supplies.
Sufficient food for three days, 2 gallons of water and a lightweight purification rig, a basic medical kit to include a course of powerful antibiotics and a handful of Percodan or Vicodin, sheath knife, Leatherman tool, sewing kit, superglue, paracord and snare cable, signal mirror, small metal bowl, two LED headlamps with spare batteries, wool base- and mid-layers, Gore-Tex or similar shell, spare socks, hat, gloves, and well-broken-in boots. That'll do it.
If you just have to take a gun, the idea of a .22 carbine or a high-powered airgun (something like a Theoben Rapid 12 in 40fpe trim) is interesting.
For a long-term (1yr.+) stay, I'd add an axe and a folding frame saw, a change of clothes, a dozen self-locking wire snares, some rudimentary cooking gear (skillet, kettle, lightweight/fireproof water bottles), several boxes of contractor-grade trash bags, a roll of copper or brass tubing for a still, more paracord and sewing gear, and as much medical gear as I can carry without staggering. Still no gun. Hunting is a waste of energy when survival is concerned, and I'm much more concerned with dying from a staph infection than with getting eaten by a grue.
If I have to take a gun, it would be a major-caliber pistol or revolver of some kind. Something that I could easily keep on me at all times. First rule, right?
How about something low tech that you might actually be able to keep running on native minerals?
Any of the Black powder flintlocks would be able to keep going as long as you could find the basic B.P. stuff. As far as projectiles go, anything you can stuff down the barrell will do something.
It's also been used as a fire starter more than infrequently.
B,
You expected to find a Heinlein book used?
In years past I lived in an area with multiple used-book stores. There were some authors who always had some books on the shelves, and others who hardly ever did. Heinlein definitely fell into the "hardly ever" category. Almost as rare as Pratchett.
wolfwalker
I have a local use book store which usually hasa handful, I'd say in the last year I've gotten about 8 from there.
b
*sigh*
I'm with Bill on this.
However... that being said, I'm thinking a lever action .357 and my new Mod 19 snubbie for the short term stay. Usual camping gear applies, heavy on the water filters, though. As for how much ammo... am I doing a base recon, or am I moving cross-country to a pickup point? It's all very well to say "I'm going to bring 200 lbs of ammo", but then you gotta HUMP IT ALONG with you! I'm thinking 2 boxes, MAYBE three at most.
Now, for a long term stay on an unknown planet? I want Dr William Weaver, "Two-Gun" Berg and the Alliance Space Ship Vorpal Blade with me!! (all you Heinlein fans, if you have not read Through The Looking Glass and it's sequels (Vorpal Blade, Manxome Foe and Claws That Catch, run, do not walk, RUN to the nearest bookstore and get them. Trust me, if you like RAH, you'll love John Ringo & Travis Taylor's latest masterpieces. Trust me on this... I've been Heinlein fan for over forty years now, and these two cheerful maniacs are definitely worthy successors to the Master.)
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