Not to thrown fuel on the "9mm vs. .45 ACP" fire, but... Somewhere along the line, someone asked for a comparison of 9mm and .45 ACP (with .22LR thrown in for scale). I decided to expand this somewhat into a discussion of caliber, bullet construction, and stopping power. The whole 9mm vs. .45 ACP debate is a hotly contested one that typically pits Glock fanbois against 1911 fanbois, with the Glockophiles favoring their high-capacity wünder-nines and the Coltaholics worshiping on the altar of big bore goodness.
So who's right?
The answer is: They both are. What caliber to chose for personal protection is an inherently, well, personal one. Perhaps you're most comfortable with a 1911. Maybe you crave the simplicity of a revolver. If budgetary concerns are preventing you from practicing, perhaps a 9mm sidearm would be best. With modern ammunition, most calibers will work fine for their intended purpose - stopping a goblin from attempting to cause you harm.
But let's widen the focus. Let's start with one of the smallest rounds out there, the simple .22LR rimfire. Few consider this a serious contender for a self-defense round (your humble host included), as it doesn't deliver sufficient punch to take down an attacker in the vast majority of instances. Stopping the attack is obviously the most important consideration in a self-defense scenario, and the little rimfire just doesn't have the force for the job.
This doesn't mean it should never be used, however. Some folks can't - or won't - shoot larger calibers. In this instance, the .22LR may mean the difference between going without and being armed. It's also the cheapest round to shoot by an order of magnitude - with bulk packs of 550 rounds selling for ~ $15 (~ $0.03/round), it's far cheaper than even the cheapest 9mm ammo ($30/100 rounds, or $0.30/round). That's a lot of shooting - for the same money, you can have 1,100 rounds of .22LR or 100 rounds of 9mm FMJ.
Intermediate calibers like .32 ACP, .380 ACP, or .38 Special also have their place in the defensive caliber pantheon. Guns chambered in these calibers, such as the Kel-Tec P3AT, the Smith & Wesson J-frame, or the Seecamp LWS 32, are the most concealable defensive arms available. Stopping power using conventional ammo with jacketed hollowpoints is decent; combining a small firearm you're more likely to have on your person with a decent stopper yields an excellent defensive arm.
The tradeoff, of course, is that these are guns that require training and practice. The shorter barrels mean a tradeoff in accuracy, as the reduced sight radius (the distance between the front sight and the rear) makes it harder to shoot with precision. It's certainly not impossible - these guns are only marginally less accurate than their longer-barreled counterparts - but shooting them well requires a significant commitment and expense.
Larger calibers - starting with +P 9mm up through .45 ACP - offer the best stopping power in a handgun. These calibers are shown time and time again to offer the highest percentages of stops (including what some have termed the "mythical 'single shot stop'"...), as they offer the best combination of velocity for penetration and bullet size for wound channel creation (simply put, the larger the wound channel, the greater the shock and therefore greater likelihood of stopping).
These guns tend to either be on the larger side - most 1911s, the super-high-capacity 9mms, etc. - or particularly brutish to shoot - the airweight .357 Magnums or the pocket .45 ACPs. They're quite often less expensive than the intermediate calibers, which means more shooting is possible; however a 12 ounce .357 Magnum is unlikely to see a terrific amount of range time.
Life is full of trade-offs - defensive arm weight, recoil, and cost of ammo all need to be factored into the equation before one choses a defensive arm.
Bottom line is, choose what works best for you. If you aren't going to carry the gun, it doesn't matter what caliber you choose. If you can't afford ammo, or find it anywhere, then you can't practice with your defensive arm. Personally, I opt for one of three calibers:
Carry Ammo
That's a 158 grain .357 Magnum, a 95 grain .380 ACP +P, and a 230 grain .45 ACP, all jacketed hollowpoints. These fill, respectively, the Snubbie from Hell, the P3AT, and the G30. All are (or were, given the past six months or so) readily available and affordable for practice; all feed reliably in their intended arms. I'm more comfortable relying on the .357 Magnum or .45 ACP for self-defense, but the .380 ACP will do in a pinch in a package that's small enough to take anywhere.
So what's your favorite/preferred caliber for self-defense?
That is all.
27 comments:
Glad to see you, like I prefer the heavier bullets. I never got the idea of intentionally trading weight for speed. As a coroner once said "The bullet is going to start loosing weight as soon as it enters the target, why give it a head start?"
Right now I just carry 230 Grain Bonded JHP .45 ACP+P (tho in my Scandium Commander the muzzle flip is a bit more than I'd like, so I'll likely switch to a bonded 230 standard pressure JHP) and some VERY bitchen .38 Special 147 +P+ JHPs. Would prefer a 158 gr, but these pills do seem to hold their own.
My next carry gun will be a small 9mm so take that caliber wars!
My summer carry gun is, like the Mighty Librarian, a Bersa Thunder .380. For the time being, it's loaded with 95gr FMJ. If I ever find some JHP, I will buy several boxes, test them, and then carry them. Until then, I'm not going to worry about over-penetration if I need it. :)
Come winter and heavier clothes, I switch back to a 1911 stoked with 165gr Hydrashocks.
When going hunting, I strap on my S&W .44Spl, handloaded a bit hot - 245gr cast lead semi-wadcutters are appropriate medicine for just about anything in the woods up here.
For camping, I'll flip a coin and take either the .44Spl, or the 1911, loaded up with 230gr JHP... it's a comforting feeling.
I have settled on .40 S&W as a reasonable compromise. It's roughly midway between .45 acp and 9 mm in energy, depending on the load. I generally carry 165 or 180 gr jhp.
Good shot placement is much more important than caliber, once you've got enough energy in the round to get the job done.
Personally I go with either the Makarov .380 with hollow points or the S&W M&P in 9mm with hollow points. The .380 is a bit easier to conceal, but I can carry both. . . of course, I am not exactly a small guy either. . .
= )
Excellent post!
I'm a firm believer that the most effective self defense tool (gun, caliber, etc.) is the one that you'll actually have on you when you need it.
I have a friend who has had his CHL longer than I have. He firmly believes that the only combo for him is a 9mm Beretta 92, with laser sight and double stacked magazine containing 147gr hydra-shoks. That gun, being way to bulky to comfortably conceal except in the depth of winter here in Texas, sits in the locked glove box of his truck 24/7.
I've told him he's begging to become Irony's Bitch.
I, on the other hand, carry a Polish P64 chambered in 9x18 Makarov in my pocket holster virtually EVERYWHERE I go, at all times that it's legal to do so - spare mag in hip pocket. 12 rounds of 94 grn JHP's will beat a gun locked up in a truck - hands down - every.single.time.
I know there are larger/better calibers available in a similar sized package, but:
1. Those guns tend to be priced out of my reach.
2. Ammo for my P64 is currently less than $10 a box... compare that to my .380 acp, if you can even find .380.
Depends on the circumstances and the location. In places where the locals have decided that I'm not allowed to defend my life, the P3AT is the ticket. Other places I like the Star .380. And if size is not a problem, the Star PD.
Not going to get into revolver options.
So what's your favorite/preferred caliber for self-defense?
Whatever's closest. :)
Who's right? The 10mm folks, of course. ;-)
Seriously, though...my defense piece is a Ruger P90 stoked with 230-grain Hydra-Shok. The weight of the gun soaks up the recoil pretty well.
Good post.
Like CW, I also settled on the .40 S&W.
I don't carry all the time (have a non-res permit only) but when I do it's usually either the Sig P225
9mm or the P229R in .357SIG.
I've been carrying the P229R more recently loaded with 125gr. Speer Gold Dot LP, which is the same load (and firearm) that the Secret Service and the Delaware State Police carry.
When I carry the P225 it's usually loaded with either 124gr. Federal HST's or 115gr. Federal 9BPLE.
I also carry a spare mag.
I have on occasion carried my FS22 with a mag full of mini-mags.
Favorite caliber for self defence? 12ga, no contest!
Oh, you mean pistol rounds? 357 magnum, because:
Plenty of energy.
Plenty of penetration.
Easily controlled in anything heavier than the Snubbie from Hell.
Can easily use 38 Specials, either factory or reloads, for reduced recoil practice.
Easy to reload.
That, and the fact that a double action revolver is IMHO the most dependable handgun design ever.
I have a 9mm Sccy (a Kel-Tec P-9 clone) a P3AT, both with Gold Dots in them.
Gold Dots proven performers and are in use with law enforcement agencies all over the country, a handy feature if I ever need to defend my choice of ammo in a court of law.
1. It's incredibly unlikely I'll ever use my sidearm.
2. It's even more unlikely that a .32 or .380 won't do the job, namely saving me from getting killed or seriously injured.
3. If I ever find myself in a situation where I need more than 6 rounds to do the job I am in a WORLD of shit and having more rounds probably won't help me. I'll carry reloads, but if I ever NEED them...my odds of surviving the encounter are probably small.
Personally I prefer .45 ACP for the stopping power. But carrying a .32 or even a .25 auto would work for me. And .38 or .357 snubbies are just plain awesome CCWs.
That's an excellent point, Bill.
Folks pooh-pooh the .22LR or .25ACP because they're not potent man-stoppers, and that's certainly true.
Someone whacked out on wowee sauce who desperately wants to part your pate with a shovel isn't likely to be deterred by a .22LR.
Or a .38 Special.
Or, more likely than not, a .45 ACP JHP.
Sure, dumping multiple rounds of 230 grain goodness into the COM will kill you attacker. Poke enough holes in someone, they'll leak out enough fluid to die.
Problem is, the vast majority of handgun ammo out there won't produce sufficient shock to incapacitate an attack instantly.
For those instances, you're better off running like hell, and the light weight of a .22LR gun won't slow you down much...
What the .22LR or .25 ACP does, however, is make the casual attacker go "OW! Hey, I'm bleeding. ZOMG I'VE BEEN SHOT" and ideally give them sufficient pause to allow for you to get out of Dodge. Where 5 seconds prior you were looking like prey, now he's got a sucking chest wound and you've got 5 or 6 more chances to give him holes Mother Nature never intended.
If he was just looking to stick you for your wallet and the $15 inside, he's going to reconsider the ROI and get the hell away before you shoot his stupid ass again...
Anyone NOT deterred by getting shot once or twice by *ANY* handgun round isn't bloody likely to be stopped quickly by a larger round.
Yes, I know. Hot 10mm rounds or .44 Magnum might impart sufficient force as to cause trauma great enough to stop the threat immediately. Multiple .45 ACP hits in rapid succession delivered to vital areas will do the same.
But a couple two or three .380" holes appear in your torso, you're going to rethink your life's direction most rikki-tik. I'm comfortable wagering on that WRT goblin repellent...
I rotate between 2 firearms: at work where subtle is needed I wear an ankle holster with a .38 snubbie with low recoil/flash Winchester loads. Wonderful hydro-shock bullets that will reliably expand at reduced velocity.
A 1911 in .45 (the way God and JMB wants it to be!) is my main carry. At 6'6” I can carry a full size 1911 with no problem.
Most often I am carrying a .380. Either the SIG P232 or my new SIG P238.
.357 Magnum from a S&W 640 or .45 from a 1911 once the weather here is cool enough to wear clothes that hide them. The revolver is preferred if I am driving my Vette (The most conceal carry unfriendly car ever made).
I have a Glock 21 in the safe, .45 AND high capacity. But it's gigantic, so it sits in that safe most of the time.
I'm a big fan of the .357sig. Ample power and a bottleneck cartridge to feed as reliably as possible. And if you need it in defense, it will likely blind your attacker and possibly scorch their eyebrows !
Maybe I'm stubborn, but when I grew up a good pistol would cycle ball ammo, and HP or SWC if you were lucky ! I prefer the bottleneck just for that extra margin of loading a .355" bullet into a .420" hole :-)
Good post.
James
When I settled on the .40S&W I could find a firearm (Glock 27) as compact as most 9mms, but firing a more powerful cartridge. I use Speer Gold Dot 165gr for carry.
I haven't seen anything since to make me change my mind.
Any firearm is better than no firearm. I advise new shooters to try 9mm pistols or .38 spl revolvers, buy whatever feels good to them, and practice at least enough to complete the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program.
Not for the slight of heart:
http://www.liquibyte.com/image/officer.pdf
"Stopping power" of these calibers is really I myth, or so I feel inclined to believe, and the above numbers show why. The force imparted by larger bullets, or whether the bullets stayed lodged in the badguy's body didn't prevent him from continuing to fight for several minutes and wound several people. It looks to me like shot placement is the end-all be-all.
I don't think I'm qualified to tell anyone else that they should shoot a different gun or calibur if they shoot well with their weapon-of-choice. I like Justin's opp: "whatever is closest," too.
I'm switching carry guns from the Sig P239 9mm to a Glock 19 because I want to have more bullets at my disposal. I love shooting the Sig, and it shoots like a dream, but I shoot just about as well with the G19. As my instructors are fond of sayin': in a real fight, you can't miss fast enough.
Feel inclined to say one more thing: I've heard the "if I can't get the job done with 6 rounds, I'm as good as dead anyways" line given several times, and I feel inclined to call bulls*t. Yeah, world of poo, no doubt, but I, for one, don't plan to die from lack of bullets to send back.
As Springfield Armory comments, "Bring Enough Gun." ;)
For me it depends on the weather and the occasion. It ranges from...
9mm with 124 grain either Hydrashok or TAP FPD in a Beretta PX4 sub-compact.
.45 acp +p 230 grain either Corbon Jacketed HP or Gold Dot in a 5" Springfield Armory XD.
.45 LC / 3" .410 Taurus Judge with whatever seems appropriate for the "woods".
I mostly carry the PX4 sub-compact for ease of concealment, lesser weight and double stacked magazine capacity.
I "feel" better when I have the XD on board, but that feeling wears down pretty quick when taking a hike.
And, the Judge is strictly for out in the back forty type of work when I am tending the Earth.
As for what is best... IMHO, whatever you are comfortable with, will practice with and become proficient with.
As has been said before, shot placement matters.
some of us Glock fan boys like .45 ACP just fine.
The Glock 30 is just a great all around carry gun in my mind. 10 rounds of .45 ACP are my friend.
I really need to get another two .45 ACP Glocks.
My regular carry is a Hi-Power in 9mm, and it is a year-round carry. I chose the weapon for a variety of reasons, including ease of concealment, capacity, and reliability.
On the ammo aspect, I decided on Speer Gold Dot 124+P after much research. It is a proven round in performance, and is the choice in 9mm for most LE agencies around here. I've verified this choice to be the best available with LE forensics experts who have personal experience with the performance of the round.
Even more important, however, is that my choice of round and gun are practical choices for maintaining and improving shooting proficiency. As has been noted many times before, shot placement is the most important variable in defensive shooting. With my gun and caliber, I can spend the time and effort necessary to be confident in my ability to accurately place shots. The Hi-power is well-fitted for my grip, well balanced for making quick follow-up shots, and dependably accurate. Combine that with the relatively low cost of 9mm practice ammo, and I have a self-defense weapon that I can have confidence in, were the need to deploy it arise.
This is not to say that I have any beef with other calibers. I can fire a 1911 nearly as accurately and quickly as the Hi-Power. The manual of arms is identical, and the 1911 is designed well enough that the increase in caliber does not equate to a significant increase in perceived recoil or sight picture reset time. All other things being equal, I'd have no problem carrying a 1911. All other things, however, are not equal. Were I to purchase a 1911 with the aim to carry, there would be the necessity to practice and become proficient enough with the gun and confident enough in its reliability. This requires both time and money, and in .45ACP, that's a significant bit more money than it was with the Hi-Power.
Calibers I will not consider are .40 S&W and .357 Sig. This is a personal choice, and I don't have a problem with anyone choosing them. The reason for my decisions are matters of practicality, both functionally and financially.
I consider .40 to be too much of a compromise in a couple of areas. The chamber pressures used in the .40 round tend to lend themselves to more frequent failures. I've seen many, many reports of exploding guns, and in my experience, those that were not a result of squib loads or overcharged reloads have overwhelmingly been guns chambered in .40. There's the "unsupported chamber" issue in some Glocks, and then other issues of case fatigue that are seen too frequently for my comfort. Things like bullet setback in the high-pressure environment of the .40 round pose an acutely more significant risk of catastrophic failure than with .45.
All that aside, in my mind the performance increase over 9mm does not warrant the significant price differential that .40 commands. Were I to step up in caliber, I see no reason to to choose .40 over .45. The price difference is negligible, while I see .45 as a more reliable and time-tested round.
As for .357 Sig, this is mainly a choice of financial practicality and availability. It is a great round, performance-wise, but it comes at a cost higher than .45 ACP, and practice ammo is tremendously much more difficult to find in any useful quantity. Another factor here is that I prefer single-action pistols, and I know of no SA gun chambered in this round.
Uh Jay, these days...it's whatever !@#$% gun you can find ammo for.
H
All in all, I found reading your article very enlightening and I encourage you to keep it up. You are doing a very good job.
There is nothing i love more that cleaning my old 0.45 and smoking a good cigar .
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