In the beginning G-d created the .30-06. Now the case was long, air space was plentiful, and the venerable M1 Garand was chambered therein.
And G-d said, "Let there be a better cartridge," and there was the .308 Winchester. G-d saw that the .308 was good, and He created the M14 for it. And it was good.
On the Vicious Circle, we've joked and gone back and forth about the .30-06 vs. .308 caliber wars, with some of us on the side of goodness and light and all that's modern favoring the .308 (G-d's own caliber) and those that stubbornly cling to things that have outlived their usefulness, artifacts of the past like the .30-06 that remain viable only because of romantic attachment to certain rifles. In much the same way that people long for the "good old days" without thinking of how bad it really was then, the .30-06 is kept alive only through mystique (and supplies at the CMP).
Please join me in admitting the general superiority of the .308 Winchester, and to consigning the .30-06 to the ammo pile of history. Place it next to the outdated 7.62X54mmR, the 7.92X57mm, and the .303 British; all of these had their place and time but have been supplanted by newer, superior rounds (in each case, interestingly enough, a round called the 7.62X51mm NATO, which just happens to be a .308 variant). Interesting, is it not, that all of the old-time battle rifles have been replaced by a single caliber - which just happens to be G-d's own caliber, the superlative .308.
And no, this has nothing to do with me having a rifle chambered in .308 but not in .30-06...
That is all.
36 comments:
OK Jay, I have to call BS on this one. . . . how can you bad mouth the M1. . . . . if you had one you would understand . . . At least that is my excuse for wanting one and I am sticking to it!
= )
Let another Holy War begin...
I think I'm gonna be Switzerland in this one and be neutral.
Great.
Next it will be the .223, then BB guns.
30.06, now and forever.
I'm with JD on this. How can you badmouth the 30-06 when it is food for the M1 Garand, which is "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man"?
Oh, and TotC: If you're Switzerland, you can't be neutral on this one. You need to be rooting for the 7.5mm G11 round, which is probably the most ACCURATE standard issue military round ever.
HERETIC! I own rifles in every holy caliber you denigrated!
I will grant the 7.62x51 has a place in the pantheon of lesser Gods, but thou shalt not revere it above the true circle of holy cartridges!
My friend, you just need a few more rifles, so you can understand better. (GGG)
Heathen! Don't you know that the 30/06 has an effective range 75 feet further than your bastardized 308? Also, your 308 never won a World War(much less two of them), did it!
And I am very sure that the English bowmen held forth that their longbows were much more superior to the French crossbows after the Battle of Agincourt.
Heck if it goes "bang" I pretty much love it.
Where, exactly, is this Ammo Pile of History of which you speak? A whole PILE of great rifle cartridges dumped there by that "just cause the gubmint likes it, it has to be better" crowd? THAT has gotta be one big ol' pile of ammo! A mountain of shooty goodness, waiting there for ME? Where?
While the .308 might be better for the gubmint's purposes (It feeds better in machine guns, for one thing!), their purposes and my purposes ain't exactly similar (I can't afford to feed the guns I have, let alone one with a cyclic rate above ...... oh hell, one WITH a cyclic rate anybody would bother to list).
I hunt and handload, so an aught six would suit my purposes much better than a .308, because I can't form cases for MY rifle from .308 WIN..... I use a .270 WIN.
Geez, next you'll be badmouthing that other great killer of America's enemies, the .45ACP.
May the ghost of John Moses Browning rust your actions.
turing word "quest", as in, Jay is on a quest to get his ass kicked
Blog Fodder:
What would be the modern equivalent of Lindy Cooper Wisdom's "700 Dollars and a 30-06"???
In today's inflated, specialized, complicated world, you'd have to go with "35,000 Dollars, a Custom AR in 6.5 Creedmore, a Focus Group, a Congressman and a Pack of Lawyers" ......
That's the most blatant example of "long comment stream bait" I've seen since the last time Kevin slapped one out there for Markie.
No shame, no shame...
The answer, of course, is to buy one or more of all of them. What kind of gunnie are you?
BillH caught it.
I was trying my hand at a Marko-like comment war.
Apparently I have succeeded...
:)
But are not all calibers delivered from on high? (well maybe not the 32NAA)
The 308 is a fine round, but 8mm mauser, 30-06, and 7.62x54R will continune to be favorites as long as surplus ammo is in the 20-25c range.
Wake me up when surplus 762x51 comes anywhere near 25c !
30-06 wins props for being able to get eeebil guns and cases of ammo from our own government. (based on the news lately, I think we're supposed to use those M1s to support the taliban)
Well at least you didn't try to re-ignite the 45-70 v. 30-06 holy war.
I'll keep my 1903A3, thanks.
lets not forget the 30-30, the caliber which brought you the Thompson/Center single-shot pistol, which could be made into a single-shot short-barreled rifle...which BATFE argued in front of a decidedly liberal Supreme Court in 1992 made the Thompson/Center Contender an illegal firearm.
That SCOTUS actually decided *against* BATFE, and upheld the principle that even thought parts were available to build an *illegal* rifle, as long as those parts were also able to build a *legal* one, siad firearm and accessory parts cannot be declared illegal.
The case was United States vs Thompson/Center arms. Thanks to that case, we are able to build all sorts of cool AR configurations without the Goobermint being able to crawl up our asses and do jumping jacks over it.
Just my two bits....
Patriot
Before the beginning there was the .30-40 Krag and all these new cartridges are just a passing fad ;)
Personally I like 7.92x57 and funny enough it's about midsize between .308 and .30-06
I'm with you on this one, Jay.
On all these we decree the sentences of excommunication, of anathema, of our perpetual condemnation and interdict; of privation of dignities, honours and property on them and their descendants, and of declared unfitness for such possessions; of the confiscation of their goods and of the crime of treason; and these and the other sentences, censures and punishments which are inflicted by canon law on heretics and are set out in our aforesaid missive, we decree to have fallen on all these men to their damnation.
So let it be written, so let it be done.
Personally, I'm a fan of 7.62x54R, both for nostalgic reasons, connected with one of longest-serving military rifles, and because that's what SVD chambers, and that can't be bad either.
But, I do recognize the right of other, lesser calibers, to exist ;)
"artifacts of the past like the .30-06 that remain viable only because of romantic attachment to certain rifles."
That's true of my .308 FAL as well as my M-1903A3 and Garand.
Why didn't you pick a non-controversial topic like, "Why 6.8 is better than 6.5?"
Caliber troll!
In my safe, There is a Savage model 10 in 308. Right next to it is an M1 Garand. In 308. Nuff said.
No .308 was fitted with a 16" bayonet.
Nor can you get a 220 grain bullet properly fitted in .308.
Why a 220 grain bullet? Bigger is (almost) always better.
Stretch makes the most convincing argument yet for .30-06...
Longer neck allows for seating of heavy bullets, and larger case capacity means in a modern rifle .30-06 can toss a heavy bullet wicked far and wicked fast.
Of course with that case capacity you need a fairly long action, so for a semi-auto 7.62x51mm is better.
Much like how .45 ACP is a total pussy round compared to the two of them, but for handguns .45 ACP is king, for bolt guns it's .30-06, for Battle-Rifles it's 7.62x51mm
And while I own me a SHITLOAD of 7.62x54R rifles, I must say, rimmed cartridges suck ass in all but revolvers and tube-magazines!
En bloc clips for my M1 are cheap and plentiful. How many mags do you have for that VEPR?
Ouch. You really know how to hurt a guy, you know that Keith?
Run the ballistics and there's not a bit worth of difference between the two. Same bullet, pushed to the same velocity, gives you the same down range effect.
.308, however, feeds better in automatics, being in the shorter case and different shape. Since I'm using an 03-A3 for Garand competition, it's going to be 30.06, but if you have an M1-A, well, I understand and forgive you for going .308.
Run the ballistics and there's not a bit worth of difference between the two. Same bullet, pushed to the same velocity, gives you the same down range effect.
If you're using standard .30-06, of the type used for M1's, sure.
Now, start getting into factory and hand loads out of a bolt gun, and it's a hole 'nother ballpark.
You can load a .30-06 up to .300 Winchester Magnum territory quite easily. Think a 150 grain bullet hitting more than 3000 fps. As has already been stated, you can also get some much heavier bullets in a .30-06 case than is practical in a .308 case.
The only place .308 beats .30-06 is semi/full-auto.
I don't care. My M1 is chambered for the 7.62X51. HA!!
emdfl
I'd like to weigh in on this as I own one rifle chambered in .308 and another in 30-06.
Unfortunately I've never shot either. :(
Given that im in the UK and in over 40 plus years of shooting have owned both a 308/7.62 L1A1 and a 30-06 a P17 i have to say i like the 30-06 the most,wider choice of bullet weights for a start and no i have never ever wanted to own a 303 in any case.
Give me the "aught" six. If I want a smaller cartridge I'll go down to the .223 not the .308. Light and heavy, not light and almost heavy.
Heh. You may donate all of your rifles chambered in calibers other than .308 directly to me...I promiseto love and care for them, and shoot them as regularly as possible. Hell, I'll take the .308s too, I'm not prejudiced at all!!!
Hey Weer'd---You're not trying to use those silly loading clips, are you? I just use those to hold five rounds together inside the ammo pouch. I strip the rounds off and load 'em individually, pushing each round back over the previous one so they feed correctly. Faster, surer, and easier than trying to do it 'as intended' :-)
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