In which we investigate the strange quirks and twists of the "good" states for gun laws in Jay's journey to worship the rodent of unusual size. We covered the "bad" states in Part I - CT, NY, NJ, DE, and MD. This post will cover VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL, states which have reputations for being far more gun-friendly than their northern counterparts.
There's a couple of caveats to start with. First off, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advise. If you base your freedom on what some crackpot Masshole writes on a weblog, quite frankly, you've got what's coming to you. :) Most of what I've found is available through the state in question's own general laws or through the NRA-ILA; however there's nothing better than doing your own research just in case the chimp banging away on the IBM Selectric happens to be wrong. Secondly, all states in question are "shall issue" for concealed carry permits meaning that if a citizen meets the criteria set forth in general laws for obtaining a CCW permit, they are granted said permit, no intervention by the chief of police, etc. required.
That said, here's how the states in question stack up in other areas regarding 2A friendliness. Read on - you may be surprised...
VA: No CCW in any establishment that sells alcohol (although they are working hard to repeal this). Open carry is legal. One handgun a month limit, waived for CCW holders. No guns in churches. No registration for long guns or handguns.
NC: Permit required to purchase a handgun - must be approved by the county sheriff. Like VA, no carry in places that sell alcohol or churches, however also not in places where a fee has been charges for admission or in banks. Machine guns are prohibited. NC has "binding signage" rules in place.
SC: Also has "binding signage". No carrying concealed in polling places, county offices, hospitals, or churches. Machine guns and short-barreled rifles and shotguns are prohibited.
GA: Open carry permitted. No possession of handguns under age 18. No concealed carry at "public gatherings" even by licensed CCW holders. No carry in churches. Machine guns and short-barreled rifles and shotguns are prohibited, as are suppressors.
FL: No open carry, which is probably a good thing because concealment is one of the only reason Robb wears pants. FL was one of the first states to adopt "shall issue" CCW laws when the regulations were loosened in 1986, adopting the CCW regulations in 1987, some eight years before the wild west state of Texas... Machine guns are prohibited in FL. FL has "safe storage" laws if there is someone under the age of 18 in the residence.
There are some of the quirky gun laws in the states south of Maryland. One of the things that jumps out at me looking at all of the states listed so far is that there is no state that allows everything in these regards - if they are "shall issue", they don't allow Class III or carry in bars/churches/public places/etc. If they are "may issue", well, right there's a deal breaker.
You know what state comes damn close to doing it all? New Hampshire. While it doesn't quite have the "no permit" CCW of VT or AK (and soon to be AZ!), the NH permit process is, shall we say, simple and cheap - $10, a single page form, and a week's time and you have your NH resident permit to carry. It is quite literally the least work you need to do for a carry permit... NH allows machine guns and suppressors. There is no "binding signage" requirement or "duty to inform". Carry in bars/restaurants/churches/etc. is fine.
There's a reason for the "Live Free or Die" motto...
That is all.
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22 comments:
Machine guns are prohibited in Florida? Pretty sure that's wrong. I think concealed carry of machine guns is all that is prohibited... ya know, so people don't walk around with a hidden Ma-Deuce in their pants.
No machine guns in Florida, but what about an age limit for driving?
I was attending a funeral last week in Dallas and noted that the funeral home had a No Carry policy/signage.
As a former resident and class III owner in FL, I can tell you that machine guns are permitted.
While not familiar with all the ins and outs, since I'll never be able to afford one, I know there are Class 3 weapons in N.C., occasionally I get to shoot one. Might be that they are not permitted for CC, but they are legal if you can afford and jump through all the federal hoops.
Can't wait to escape to NH full time! In the meantime, compared to some of those "progun" states, little ol' liberal CT doesn't sound so bad. Sure we have an AWB, but it's pretty ineffectual for the most part. Sure we are applauded by the brady bunch as being may issue, but for the most part in actual practice unless you are a prohibited person you will get a carry permit. We not only allow carry in places that serve alcohol, we allow you to carry and consume alcohol; IN MODERATION (though currently the bac limit for carry is higher then the limit for driving, go figure). Open carry is legal, though not common. (CCDL.us is working on that!) Class III (as long as it's full auto only) is legal, and I think so are suppressors if they are permanently attached. No binding signage, and no state restrictions on carry other then inside state .gov buildings. Not NH, but not so bad.
Be careful of your GA writeup. Our laws are a legacy of Jim Crow and the court cases were meant to punish the Blacks harshly, thus there are alot of nuances not mentioned in the code.
Open and Concealed carry requires a license.
If you are going to, coming from, or at a Public Gathering, you can not carry
If you are near a parking lot of a public gathering, that is off limits. Near hasn't been defined but in one case it was 300 yards
McDonalds is OK to carry. A BBQ joint it is not ok.
THere is more but you get the flavor and danger of carrying in GA
MIke
Virginia is an Open Carry state, no license required, CCW with permit. You may open carry in restaurants that serve alcohol (we do not have "bars" here), and will be able to Concealed-carry after July 1 as long as you do not consume. NFA-3 weapons and suppressors are legal, but must be registered.
We are still working on reciprocity with a number of states...give us a little time and we'll even recognize your MA CCW permit.
In South Carolina you can carry a firearm in a center console or glove box. You can also marry your cousin.
Note: I was serious about the console or glove box. No permit needed.
As Newbius said, VA has already fixed the restaurant issue. (We just have to wait for July 1st, when most new laws take effect.)
Also, it looks like you'll be able to carry a loaded firearm in an unlocked console of a car without a permit. (Open carry has been legal without permit) Basically VA has a sort of line-item veto. The house and senate passed a bill that said you can carry a loaded gun in a locked car console. Gov McDonnell said, "hey guys, how about we make it so the console doesn't have to be locked?" And the house and senate just approved those changes. So, we've got that going for us, too. The way things are going for VA gunnies, I wouldn't be shocked if we have AZ/AK/VT carry in a few years.
Speaking of quirky, NC allows machine guns only for "experimental puroposes" or "research and development".
My brain is in the middle of a NH meltdown. I have a permit, they rejected my renewal last month, then sent me a new application today. WTF ?
"NC: Permit required to purchase a handgun - must be approved by the county sheriff. Like VA, no carry in places that sell alcohol or churches, however also not in places where a fee has been charges for admission or in banks. Machine guns are prohibited. NC has "binding signage" rules in place."
Class 3 is allowed so long as you meet the exception to the law prohibiting them, which means you get a NFA stamp.
Open carry is allowed in banks but not concealed. Though it isnt recommended either way.
CCH suffices for handgun purchase permit.
Binding signage only applies to concealed carry and must say "no concealed guns allowed" and must be conspicuously posted.
In SC you CANNOT carry in restaurants that serve alcohol.
Others have hit on the guns in restaurants part, but I thought I should comment on church part.
The "no guns in church" law (Va. Code §18.2-283) is very vague, and probably unconstitutionally so. It basically bans carrying in a place of worship "without good and sufficient reason". What constitutes "good and sufficient reason" is not actually defined anywhere in state law, and I don't believe it has ever been decided by a court, either.
I see two possible outcomes if such a case ever goes to court:
1) The statute gets thrown out for being unconstitutionally vague;
2) "Good and sufficient reason" gets defined by the Court as "any lawful purpose" - which would include self-defense.
While I wouldn't want to be a test case, the chances of winning against any charges for it are pretty good.*
(* IANAL and this is not meant as legal advice. As Jay said, "If you base your freedom on what some crackpot [Virginian] writes on a weblog, quite frankly, you've got what's coming to you.")
Also, VA's laws on machine guns are a trap waiting to happen. Va. Code §18.2-290 makes possession "for an offensive or aggressive purpose" a felony. The kicker is §18.2-291, which defines what constitutes an aggressive purpose. There are four possibilities. Number 4 is "When empty or loaded shells which have been or are susceptible of use in the machine gun are found in the immediate vicinity thereof."
This is an "or" list. Meeting any one of the criteria - including possessing ammunition (or even empty brass) for the gun - creates an automatic presumption that you have committed a felony.
Can you say "ripe for abuse?" Now imagine your worst enemy is in charge of enforcing the laws.
Florida allows any and all NFA firearms as long as they are registered with the Federales. As several others are also pointing out.
There is no prohibition on NFA items in Georgia. You may own all the suppressors, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, machine guns, or destructive devices that you care to in the Empire State of the South.
They do have a state law against owning unregistered ones, but if you have a Form 4, you're golden.
Also, in Georgia you may have a loaded firearm in your car as long as it is in "plain view" or in a lockable glove box or center console, no permit required.
And if you live in a small enough town in NH, the local constabulary will personally deliver your LTC to save a stamp and skip the $10 renewal fee.
The individual state laws in this country are like a maze wrapped in an enigma jammed up into a riddle. I try to rely on concealedcarry.net's trip planner, but your observations and the comments have me questioning that.
Speaking of misconceptions, my coworkers in Texas have the impression that the entire northeast is like MA, NY, and NJ. They can't believe that my LTC is a slip of paper typed by that IBM selectric and that I don't need a damn thing in VT.
Like Steve, both my and The Wonderful Spouse's LTC were hand delivered by our small town NH local friendly police officer.
What about Pennsylvania?
- Shall Issue hassle free permits ($25)
- Open Carry (with some typical harassment)
- NFA weapons allowed (silencers, machine guns, short barrelled rifles, etc)
- AZ might have just passed restaurant carry. But in PA not only can you carry in restaurants and bars. But you can drink too.
- No limit on firearm purchases.
Right now the anti-gunnies are pushing for a lost/stolen ordinance. And we're fighting them hard on that.
But for how blessed the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania's gun laws are. Our liquor laws make MA look like a bastion of freedom.
Connecticut ain't no Mass. But it's no rose neither.
You need a permit just to buy a handgun. Depending on where in CT, this can be a pain. Cities often play games. No forms in stock, etc.
Not a lot of gun shops in southern Connecticut.
Makes for dissuading subjects from becoming citizens. I should know. Both my mom and I wanted to be gun owners for a few years. But between the time, hassle, and lack of community. It didn't happen for several years.
The good news is that CT, although an at-will issue. Does have a state appeals board.
So essentially, in CT you can get a permit. But you may have to spend months pushing through bureaucratic BS.
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