Here's the list of issues from SCI-FI himself:
This all came to a head a few months ago when the transmission went at ~ 70K miles. Now, folks (og, I'm looking at you) gave me grief when I bought my Ram over the {ahem} fragility of Dodge transmissions - and I'll be the first to admit that, yes, Mopar certainly doesn't have the best reputation for transmissions in the automotive world. However, 70K for a transmission in a truck that doesn't tow *or* plow???
The failures:
- the lower steering shaft (this month),
- 4th gear plus unknown additional transmission work (requiring a rebuilt transmission),
- the airbag light is on constantly,
- the seatbelt light/chime continued without stop for about a week before I shut the seatbelt chime off,
- the driver's side window collapsed (the window-motor died when the window was down, so I had to replace it),
- passenger's side tie rod,
- steering arms (? Not fixed yet, will cost another $200 per side; will not pass inspection this way, I am warned),
- emergency brake broke (at the shoe, not the handle),
- leak from the rack&pinion box - another $1100 (not fixed yet),
- In Sept 2006 / 25K miles (under warranty), the engine had some clicking problem at startup, which the dealer originally said was nothing, then took my truck for 4 days (no loaner -thanks, Ford!) to rebuild the engine/replace the gaskets. And, at some early point (under warranty), the rear window had a terrible leak, which they fixed by re-caulking the *center brake light*
...and a few other things that have slipped my mind. (Don't forget the lousy Continental tires she was shod with when I bought her.)
SCI-FI is, among many things, a gifted writer. He's the proverbial guy that can write you a letter telling you to go to hell in such a way that you anticipate the voyage. He wrote a detailed, factual, clinical letter to Ford detailing all the failures that his five year old truck had experienced in the hopes of gaining some recompense from the company in both the monetary sense and for customer service. He received neither. Here's where I come in: I've got my little soapbox here, and if I can't use it to help a true friend (and I fully believe SCI-FI would help me move bodies), what good is it?
Here's his synopsis of Ford's response:
OK, I wrote to Ford and gave them the details on Betty's [ed note: yes, that's the name of his truck. My Dodge is "Brunhilda", FYI] interminable failures.Now, 70K for a transmission may be normal - for something constructed in China, or perhaps an American car from the late 1970s. Even my dad's 1994 Dodge Caravan went ~ 90K before blowing its first transmission, and it was driven exclusively by retired state cops - who, let's face it, are infamous for beating the living hell out of automatic transmissions. A mutual friend ditched his Windstar at 110K when the tranny blew. Over 100K is pretty much expected for an automatic transmission in any car these days.
They sent me a letter asking me to call their "bitch-out" line where I could discuss the problems in person.
I called, and the rep investigated my situation. The rep asked if they could manage something with a dealership, and I said "Even if the relationship with the dealership had been 100% perfect, the truck is still a disaster!"
They called back today with the following:
1) No explanation, no offer of reimbursement for the blown transmission + the broken window motor, no nothing. ($2290 for the tranny + about $350 for the window motor.)
2) "Sticking" problem with the lower steering shaft was classified as "normal wear and tear." (about $550).
3) No word on the squeaky wheel bearing, nor the incessant seat chime and intermittent airbag warning light. I guess those are "normal wear and tear," too...
4) Pending service issues ("2 lower ball joints have play" -- [local Ford Dealership] quotes this as $630, plus $60 alignment; not fixed; "2 sway bar end links loose CDR" -- [local Ford Dealership] quotes this as $290; not fixed) are also classified as "normal wear and tear," so they offer no help.
3) Since I'm not a regular customer of [local Ford Dealership], they felt "no loyalty" from me, so therefore they were not inclined to waive any the service fees (when they looked over the truck back in March.) (Ford didn't bother to investigate -or care- that I had already had lousy dealings with [local Ford Dealership], which caused me to stop going to them in the first place.)
(The verdict on this was stunning to me -- I said words to the effect of "If a customer has a bad relationship with a dealer, Ford doesn't do ANYTHING TO BACKSTOP THIS from costing you customers?")
In short, they said I'm on my own. Ford backed up [local Ford Dealership] 100%. The part failures are all normal. (Did I mention that the mechanic at Meineke actually PRAYED FOR ME NOT TO HAVE ANY MORE FAILURES? Despite the fact that they make money off these failures?)
I have a truck that cost a big chunk of dough, financed through Ford, that has eaten over $3000 in repairs in the past 9 mos, with another $1500 (plus whatever for the wheel bearing will cost) to repair what is *known to be failing* -- all for a truck that could have another expensive failure at any moment, despite the repairs. Since I just spent the $2290 on the transmission (which has a 1 yr warranty), I'll limp the truck along for another year.
So, I'm now taking suggestions on what's the most effective way to make this case public. I can't be the only one having this problem. Before the next poor dope decides to buy a Ford, he should probably know the flaccid quality and abysmal service up front.
As for regular wear and tear, well, that's an exercise for the reader. Mrs G. has run two consecutive cars out past 100K - one Chrysler, one Honda - and neither blew their transmissions, power windows, engine gaskets, or emergency brakes. In the interest of fairness, the Honda did have the ball joints replaced - after 10 years and 100K miles of driving over really bad back roads. 5 years, 70K miles though? This is supposed to be Ford's "best selling truck for over 30 years", isn't it? If their flagship light truck can't handle 70K miles of even the hardest driving, how the blue blazes did FORD manage to be the only American company not driven into receivership???
Well, SCI-FI, here's one way to make your case public - perhaps someone out there who reads my blog has some pull with Ford or some ideas on what to do next...
That is all.
20 comments:
This all sounds too familiar. After a lifetime in the auto service industry, I am now an instructor in the field. Your buddies story is par for the course with both Ford and Chrysler. GM is not immune as well.
Now, for every person who relates a story like this, there will be four who say "My truck has been great, no problems at all!" which means you have a 20% chance of getting a terrible clunker. Not good odds for something that costs about 1/4th as much as a small house and is designed to wear out over time.
No... Ford Motor Company will not help. If they did, they would have to help out all the other folks dealing with their badly designed transmissions as well. Yes, they have a 90% failure rate by 100,000 miles, even without abuse. That is sad... very sad... when so many other builders are turning out units that last the life of the vehicle.
I have no easy answers, and agree that letting people know what they are getting themselves into is the best you can probably do.
Next time your buddy is truck shopping... may I suggest looking at the Nissan Titan? Build in the US, with more US made parts than that Ford he's driving, and a fantastic record of holding up.
I agree with Carteach...I hate to say it, but our own USA nameplates have less parts and subassemblies built here than do the so-called Jap Imports.
I have no idea what Sci-Fi can do except for submitting something to an op-ed section in the local paper, etc. Just need to remember to be factual, clinical, and emotionless, otherwise he could get in trouble with claims of libel.
You don't mention what state Scifi lives in. Whatever state that might be, I recommend a web search for information on the state's "lemon law." The definition of a lemon car varies from state to state, but I daresay most of them would consider that a vehicle which has sucked up five grand in repairs to parts that should be covered by the new-vehicle warranty should qualify for some sort of relief. A short consultation with a lawyer who is experienced in the subject might also be in order. I normally follow Rule 13 (never, ever involve lawyers), and I flinch at the thought of paying a couple of hundred for a couple of hours of his time, but in this case it may be worth it.
When I had issues with Subaru posting didn't do much but I did put their name in the heading and got them to answer me on the blog. Still did not help on the fix. Finally got rid of the car and will never buy another one from them. . . Good Luck!
My family bought 8 Chrysler products between '89 and '05, and we haven't bought another since. We had decent service out of them until I bought my 05 Ram, I had the blow-off valve take a dump which caused the intercooler to blow out. This was at ~15K.
I called Chrysler, they towed it to the nearest stealership with a diesel mechanic. I asked them to let me pay for the tow to a dealership that I knew and trusted but they said if I did that, they would not cover the costs since I had called and reported the failure and was closer to this place.
well, the stealership saw an aftermarket exhaust (5" from the downpipe back) and K&N exhaust and illegally voided my warranty. I contacted Chrysler immediatly, had to pay to get it towed back to my parents, bought the replacements parts out of my own money and upgraded the truck due to their assholishness. After 6 months+ of calls back and forth they basically told me to shove it, so I told them we would no longer be Chrysler customers.... my mom now has a Nissan, my other vehicle is a Subaru.... sadly, as much as I LOVE the Challenger, I cannot bring myself to buy one due to their absolutely abysmal customer service.
oh yea, I ended up with BD Super-B Twins, BD Cool-it intercooler outta that deal (same price as replacing the factory turbo and intercooler), which caused me to have to buy an $8000 transmission to handle the power.... 560RWHP with 1280RWTrq, and its now the farm-truck and wife's daily driver
So which 4x4 US truck is designed well, Carteach? This Durango has little details that annoy, but has been solid for me, and I want to reproduce that experience. Or increase my liklihood.
I can't buy Japanese emblems. They killt my Grandpa.
This is one reason why I won't buy new.
Why pay a premium price for something when they do everything in their power not to honor the warranty?
It's not worth it.
You knock the "new car" premium off the price and get something that's good and broken in already when you buy vehicles that are at least 3 years old.
My 2000 F-250 has over 190k on it now and the only major thing I've had to have done was a transmission rebuild.
I've had to do some minor repairs...standard stuff like battery replacement, new door lock actuators, a front wheel hub (the bearings went and they are integral), brakes, things like that...but I've gotten years of good use out of it and even when adding the cost of the tranny and other minor repairs, it still cost me significantly less than a new one would have.
But I have to admit that I am thankful for all the suckers out there who insist on buying new. After all, there wouldn't BE any used vehicles for me to buy if no one ever bought a new one;)
Sailorcurt,
Speaking as a sucker who has bought new cars, there's one simple reason: When I buy a new vehicle, I know for a fact that it has not been abused for the past 10/20/50K miles.
I've seen FAR too many V6 Explorers towing 25' travel trailers, or half-ton trucks dumping 25' boats into the ocean on a weekly basis, to *ever* buy a hauling vehicle used. You can do a helluva lot of damage to a vehicle in short time by towing incorrectly.
The other vehicles we've bought new are our two Hondas, which if you look at the prices on newer used Hondas, there's just no incentive to by used. We bought a 2000 Accord in March of 2000 for ~ $20K. They had two or three '97/'98 Accords with 24-36K miles on them - the cheapest was $17K.
For $3K I'm going to buy someone else's headache?
There's only a handful of reasons to get rid of a car at 2 years. First is a lease, in which case you run the risk of someone who didn't perform any maintenance and decided to lose the security deposit instead. Second is someone losing their job - see objection to #1 - you can let a lot of repairs/maintenance go while looking for new employment. Or the car could simply be a rolling turd...
Now, if you're talking American sedans I completely agree - there's simply no reason to drop $16K on a new Chevy Malibu when you can get a two year old one for $9K...
I second Wolfwalker's idea about lemon laws. The dealer won't tell you about them since they'll have to suck up the cost. Also investigate the laws about deceptive practices and the selling of used cars.
In 2001 I bought a Ford Ranger 4X4 that turned out to be a lemon. Parts would literally come loose as I drove it, and more than once it was towed back to the dealer.The state's lemon law would only help if the same problem appeared 3 times, and the company failed to remedy the situation. Since it was different faults each time, I was SOL. When I spoke with a representative at the office of the president of Ford, I was told "We're fixing it under warranty, what more do you want?" Followed by the declaration - When the state orders us to replace the truck, that's when we'll do it. As soon as I was no longer "upside down" with the loan, it was gone. Back to a Toyota, 161K and still going strong.
Ford is notorious for having bad transmissions, going back decades. There's an old news video floating around show a late 70's Ford T-Bird doing donuts BACKWARDS in the street on the west side of Akron, Ohio w/o a driver! Cops had to ram it to stop it. Agree with the Lemon Laws, but also go to Federal D.O.T. and file a complaint, and if you can afford it it, SUE the Bastards, because its value is above the limit for Small Claims court, and Ford will most likely send a M.I.B. with a check to settle. They don't want to be accused of turning into another Toyota, might hurt their "Corporate Image". Hope this helps.
I've driven a lot of trucks in my life
and the count is up to 8 over the last 40 years. The first 8 all ran for at least 100K. Some were not
a lot of fun and the Ford was the worst by far.
The ONLY one that stuck me on the road
(more than once I'd add) was a '72 F250/4wd (heavy duty package) bought new. All of the failures were for stupid stuff like bell housing cracking at 12,000mi, several master cylinder failures (no brakes at all!) and a slew of other stupidity. FYI:
while it had racks and carried weight
it never towed more than a puny 16ft
runabout.
FORD still stands for Fix Or Repair Daily in my book. Over the last 29
years the three Toyotas have done well. Each one has had the dubious
honor of helping local friends drag
their broken Ford truck home.
I can accept that any equipment needs maintenance to last but I also expect
a reasonable life span. Whats reasonable, the loan expires first before the truck, 100k before the first 1K service bill (again tires and brakes and accidents dont count here). Also everything works right when delivered or is fixed real fast.
Son thats a bright yellow lemon
and it's not the first ford I've
seen with lemons taped to it!
Eck!
Damn. And I thought I was having problems with my '07 Jeep.
Ford.
An acronym for:
Fix Or Repair Daily. (Thanks, Eck!)
Flip Over, Read Directions.
F**ked On Race Day. (from a former member of a 'pit crew'.
Found On the Road, Dead.
Enough said.
Ford truck quality has been questionable for several years. They've had diesel problems, suspension problems, transmission problems.
I'm pretty sure that Instapundit has several posts about his brother or brother in law's Ford problems. Mostly engine, I think.
There was also a class action suit against Ford for problems with the diesel engines in ambulances with Ford chassis. I forget the exact years, but I know that they paid a bundle to settle it.
GM seems to have the best domestic trucks, but my Tundra is a lot better and will probably last longer.
Have you considered parking it in the dealer's lot and setting it on fire?
And I have to ask this:
Did you know Jesus was a Ford Man?
Yeah, he walked everywhere he went!
I've not owned a truck by Ford, but I've owned a Probe, Mustang and now a Focus. I'm at 126k on the Focus without any issues.
If you like, Jay, I can post this on my blog to help spread the word about Sci's issues. My readership is not as large as yours but you never know where you get a hit.
Hello, all-
1) Thanks to JayG, our humble host, for this forum to let me vent. I am as furious as one could possibly expect at having to spend over $3000 to date, with another $1500 (actually closer to $2400, if I add in the "must do" and the "should do" repairs) for the outstanding issues. That's over 20% of the original purchase price of the truck in screwball repairs, and then have Ford tell me this is normal wear and tear. (Note: that $$ doesn't count ACTUAL "wear and tear" items such as tires and brakes and routine maintenance.)
2) Patrick, if you'd like to repost my story, by all means, go for it. Same goes for anyone else who would like to repost my tale, so long as it remains intact and unembellished. (This is the intarwebs -- I fully expect whatever I write to get garbled six ways to Sunday before it gets broadcast.)
3) Carteach0: Right now, letting everyone know the expense of this rattletrap and the virtual 'shrug' from Ford over it is my primary goal. Since I just sunk a chunk of dough into it, I'll keep it for the one-year warranty I now have. (Ironically, the Mieneke warranty is the best protection my transmission has ever had -- they're honoring parts and labor AND LOANER.) I have a year to do research and find something better. (And at this rate, a rusty VW from Mexico would be better...)
4) Angry Patriot: I don't have any local papers with sufficient "reach" so I'm looking for good online venues to voice my fury. Nothing illegal, nothing untrue -- and I have receipts to back up my repairs if someone wants to claim libel.
5) wolfwalker and MidWestChick: I am MArooned with JayG. StuckinMassachusetts, as it were. Unfortunately, my understanding of Lemon Laws is "three attempts to repair the same problem" -- which isn't my situation. I just have repeated failures that make the truck unsafe to drive. (Bad tranny, steering wheel stuck due to the lower steering shaft, squeaking wheel bearing, fluid leaking from the end of the steering box, and on and on and on...)
6) Bluesun: I wouldn't light it on fire, but I did give serious thought to writing "DON'T BUY FORD -- ASK ME WHY" on the tailgate -- with a huge red circle+slash across the blue oval, and then parking it out front of the dealership as I go in and "check out the new cars" for an hour or so. Eventually an employee would see the rear end of the truck, dutifully aimed at the entryway of the dealership , and I'd get tossed. But it would be worth it.
7) Eck! and grayson: Yes, our host has used the "Fix Or Repair Daily" line on me since high school -- this was back when my car was a 1976 Gran Torino (which was bulletproof). He was prophetic because the next car (1987 Taurus) was a lemon par excellence. It was the worst car I'd ever owned until this cursed truck.
8) JD, BUFF_dragon, Sailorcurt, gator, Harvey, Bubblehead Les, Harvey, and TOTWTYTR: Thank you all for your feedback. I'm not quite sure where I go from here, but I'm full of piss and vinegar so I'll keep JayG posted.
9) New Jovian Thunderbolt (and CarTeach0 again): JayG will attest - I've had some long-seated aversion to buying Japanese makes. This has pushed me, if not over the edge, then certainly up to it, to abandoning the US makes. How the mighty have fallen.
Are people still actually boycotting Japan over some bullcrap? Folks, WWII's been over for 65 years. They killed some of us, we vaporized two of their major cities. I think we're even, already.
Now, you can buy a reliable, well-made Japanese vehicle(with the occasional sticky accelerator), drive it until you're too old to re-up your license and then hand it off to your grandkids, and know that you're supporting craftsmanship and innovation rather than some bloated union's coffers...
...or you can continue to eschew Japanese vehicles due to an irrational grudge. In which case, you deserve every single repair bill that American POS gives you.
One day, America will be back on top of the world in terms of build quality, customer service and pride in workmanship. That day, unfortunately, is not today.
Wow, 100K ius considered "normal" to replace a tranny?
I tend to buy cars that already have 90K - 100K miles, and the only transmission I've EVER had to have worked on was a used Civic 5-speed I bought (that one only had 50K, that had a BONE DRY transmission (the mechanic I took it to for a pre-purchase inspection didn't check) when I bought it -- one month later, the transmission locked up tight.
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