We wouldn't need leathers if it weren't for the other dumbasses on the road.
I was out riding my wife's bike (she's still on injured reserve so I ride her bike for an hour or so every once in a while to keep it in shape) yesterday afternoon when a blind b...um...person of the female persuasion...in a big pick up truck the next lane over to my left just decided she wanted to be where I was and pulled over with no warning.
I was right beside the cab, not in her blind spot...she just flat out didn't look.
She had her driver's side window down so, after having accelerated back up to speed following my wild braking maneuver to keep from getting squashed, I got in the left lane, pulled up next to her and yelled something to the effect of "are you trying to kill someone?" To which she shouted the inevitable response "I didn't see you".
"Well...You'd have a heck of a lot better chance of seeing someone next time if you freaking LOOK!!!"
She didn't even have the decency to apologize for almost killing me. Apparently, in her opinion, it wasn't her fault that my chosen mode of transportation was so small that she didn't perceive my presence through osmosis.
Use your eyes, cage drivers...that's what they're for.
I've struggled with that in my 15 years of riding. I used to be of that same mindset - that anyone out riding without full gear was acting foolishly, etc.
I'm not so sure now, though.
Don't get me wrong. I prefer wearing full leathers - when it's comfortable to do so. In July and August, in 90ยบ heat, it's just not practical. When you're hot, you're distracted, and when you're distracted, that's when things go pear-shaped.
Now, I will be the FIRST to agree with you that a LOT of bikers earn the "stupid" badge - heck, on the same road where I saw this shirt some squid on a sportbike came roaring through traffic at at least 20 mph over the prevailing speed. There's someone just looking for skin grafts...
Sailorcurt,
I had a guy blow right through a red light and cross two lines of traffic in front of me once. I was on a four-lane road (two lanes each way) and had the green when grandpa in his Buick didn't even slow down for the red light and proceeded to make a right turn into my lane - and I was in the left of the two lanes, meaning that he not only ran the light, but came across an extra lane of traffic to cut me off.
Completely oblivious.
And yet when I rode by with a few choice words ("Nice red light, Grandpa, maybe next time you'll succeed in killing someone"), I'm sure he went back to the rest home and complained about the eeeeevil biker and probably wrote a letter to his congressman asking to outlaw two wheels...
Main reason why I always look over my shoulder in addition to the mirrors. And yet, even after doing that I've still had one occasion where I didn't see the bike that was pulled right up into the 7 o'clock position and pacing me. Fortunatly, he beeped his horn at me when he saw my turn signals come on, and I apologized afterwards.
I was taught even if I was covered in flashing lights and blaring rock from speakers strapped to my bike that the cagers still wouldn't see me. I figure most riders understand the basic maxim of "They will not look for you so don't assume they will.".
My view on the matter and what I would tell other riders/potential riders was: "Assume every driver around is a serial killer and you and your bike are exactly what they are looking for today. Act accordingly.".
Unfortunately, this forces riders to ride defensive. Make and maintain space for escape and get into the heads of the idiots around you. It works. I know it shouldn't be that way and that riders should have the same road rights as cagers but it just doesn't work that way. They're sheep no matter where you put them.
I always wore a white coverall when I rode. The fact that it had an upside down Polish Racing Team logo on the back may have saved me a couple of times...
I've had plenty of cage drivers attempt to murder me in the 30 years I've been riding...that one just happened yesterday, which was timely considering the nature of the post, which is why I related the story.
People who ride like idiots...are. They deserve whatever they end up getting. Hopefully they won't take anyone else out with them when they splatter themselves across the highway.
And I have to admit that I enjoy taking the occasional risk myself, when I can do so without endangering anyone else. That's my decision to make and I'll suffer (or enjoy) any consequences of that decision.
But I absolutely should not be expected to festoon myself with a hundred pounds of armor plating in defense against idiots. Implying that someone who is injured by another's negligence or stupidity is to blame because they didn't properly prepare for the other person to be an idiot is ridiculous.
If you ever get shot by an idiot at the range who isn't following the four rules, is it your fault because you weren't wearing kevlar?
I think not.
If I'm not wearing full leather and am injured by my own actions, then I have no one to blame but myself.
But if I'm injured by your actions, whether I'm wearing full racing gear complete with armor plated gloves and boots, or riding in shorts a tank top and flip flops...you can bet I'm going to be blaming your inattention or negligence for the injuries I suffer...because that's who is to blame.
With that said: I didn't rack up 30 years of experience riding motorcycles virtually every day by not paying attention and practicing defensive driving (or riding in tank tops, shorts and flip flops).
I do drive VERY defensively...which is why I was here today to tell the story about what happened yesterday. The fact that I do so and have been able to successfully avoid all the idiots who've tried to kill me over the years, doesn't make them any less idiots for trying.
When you are out operating your ton and a half lethal weapon, you are responsible for your actions and any damage they cause...so put down the phone, stop playing with the radio, eat your meals at the dinner table rather than behind the wheel, and pay attention to what the frak you're doing.
I rode for damn near 40 years. The first 5 or 6, until was old enough for my license, MotoX and Enduro. Protective gear is a must. Why? Well for the idiots trying to kill you. And! If you have never taken a blackbird or similar sized bird in the chest or shoulder, it hurts like a sumbitch with only a tee shirt on! Leathers and when it really hot, mesh type with the armor. I work as a medic and I have went on my share of accidents. Leather and other protective gear saves hide. Now for the Tee JayG saw! I want one big enough to wear over my riding gear...oh yeah and its Orange!! Can wear it Deer Hunting!!
i dont care how hot it is, if you arnt in full protective gear, you will get hurt more when you go down. They make great protective gear that will cool almost as good as no gear.
Gear saves more lives then loud pipes, and i have watched more then i can count tards on bikes here in Germany that think because they are on two wheels lanes dont matter, and buzz in and out of cages, and live in the blind spot of other cars.
Stupid badges go to both sides. You can be right, just dont be dead right. You might have the right of way, but the truck has the mass of way, and mass wins every fight!
I'm not arguing the fact that if you're not wearing full protective gear and go down, you have a better chance of being injured.
That's a given.
Then again, you have even less chance of getting injured if you're traveling in a 3,000 lb, fully enclosed vehicle.
For that matter, for the ultimate safety, you're best bet is probably a dump truck or armored car.
If I wanted to be guaranteed perfect safety when traveling, I wouldn't be on a motorcycle in the first place.
If I'm willing to take the chance of not wearing full protective gear at all times, that's my business...and it doesn't excuse anyone else, from the responsibility of operating their own motor vehicles in a safe manner while sharing the road with me.
True, I may not have had as much road rash had I been wearing a 40lb leather coat when you ran me over...but I wouldn't have had any had you not run me over in the first place.
and it doesn't excuse anyone else, from the responsibility of operating their own motor vehicles in a safe manner while sharing the road with me.
You are responsible for yourself. Any rider knows that cars don't see you. They just don't.
If I cross in a crosswalk with the light without looking both ways and a guy runs a red light and kills me, it's his fault. But if I had looked I wouldn't be dead.
I'm responsible for myself.
Being able to blame someone else for an injury I could have avoided doesn't make me happy.
You are responsible for yourself. Any rider knows that cars don't see you. They just don't
BS.
They don't see you because they aren't looking.
As long as they are traveling in their lane of travel at a rate of speed consistent with road and traffic conditions, it simply doesn't matter whether they see me or not. They have the "right of way" at that time and it is my responsibility to keep from hitting them.
As soon as they vary from that formula by changing lanes, turning, speeding up rapidly, etc, they have the responsibility to watch for and yield to other traffic that now has the "right of way" over them.
The fact that most drivers generally fail to do this with any sort of conscientiousness doesn't relieve them from the responsibility or excuse their failure to do so.
Holding someone else responsible for their actions is hardly "blaming them" for something "I could have avoided".
You can avoid all traffic crashes by never leaving your house. So...by your logic, any injury you suffer as a result of someone else's negligent operation of a motor vehicle (or any other lethal weapon) is your own damn fault...you could have avoided the situation by simply staying safe and sound at home.
If I cross in a crosswalk with the light without looking both ways and a guy runs a red light and kills me, it's his fault. But if I had looked I wouldn't be dead.
I'm responsible for myself.
Have you even read any of the preceding posts?
Where did anyone say that motorcyclists should be able to ride around without paying attention to what others are doing?
That's what defensive driving is all about.
But saying that it is incumbent upon me to take care of myself by driving defensively STILL does not relieve other drivers of the responsibility to operate their lethal weapons with care and caution or relieve them of the responsibility for the consequences should they fail to do so.
Being able to blame someone else for an injury I could have avoided doesn't make me happy.
I guess you don't get out much then, do you? Or do you happily accept the responsibility for the negligent acts of everyone around you when you could have avoided any situation by not being there in the first place?
I'll paraphrase my question from earlier: If you're at the range and someone negligently discharges a firearm and shoots you, was it your fault?
You may have avoided injury by wearing bullet resistant clothing. Or you could have avoided the possibility of injury at all by simply selling off your guns and eschewing the range altogether.
So, by your logic, it was your fault that you got shot, not the negligent gun handler.
Because you are responsible for yourself, after all, and heaven knows you shouldn't expect the people around you to act responsibly while operating deadly weapons.
When I road-ride I wear my dirt-gear because it's even more badass (and it's all I got anymore). After helping scrape-up a few too many road-riders and calling the helicopter-ambulance when no amount of leather or helmetry could have made a difference, blood washed across both lanes to the fog-line... Ultimately I couldn't keep convincing myself I wouldn't join them (too) soon - so now I ride dirt most only, but that's just me.
On a tall dual-sport, sitting up high, you can see over cars and pickup trucks and kick in their mirrors and escape across the lawn. My size 13 SIDI dirtboots are comfy too.
Robert - A bike operator who rides in your blind-spot when HE (or she) can so easily ensure that he IS in your mirror is an idioot.
A bike operator who rides in your blind-spot when HE (or she) can so easily ensure that he IS in your mirror is an idioot.
Hear hear.
If I can't see their face (either in a mirror or through a window), they can't see me.
However, if I can see them, then they have absolutely no excuse for claiming they didn't see me...that just means they were too lazy or incompetent to look.
When I took the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course twenty-five years ago our instructor went over wearing all the safety gear and wearing high visibility clothing and then read a letter that a California rider had written to a motorcylce magazine. He said when he started riding on his commute he wore a high visibility orange vest and reflective strips on his helmet, the works for making yourself noticeable. He felt absolutely invisible in traffic. He switched to a beat up leather jacket with a log chain coiled over one shoulder and suddenly everyone on the road saw him and stayed away from him. The moral he took from this was that it was better to look dangerous to the other driver than to appear meek.
This bore out for me when I was commuting to work. The first morning that I had a softball game after work and had my softball bat strapped to the sissy bar in a manner that it looked like I could draw it out to bash a windshield I had all the room in traffic I could have wanted. Drivers don't pay attention unless they perceive a danger or threat to themselves.
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Open Invitation for New Shooters
Just want to extend an open invitation to all potential new shooters in the Northern Virginia area. If you have never shot a firearm, or would like to get back into the shooting sports, or are an accomplished shooter who'd like to try something in my arsenal, give me a shout.
New shooters get range time, targets, gun use and ammo on me. I've even got extra eye and ear protection - all you have to do is show up.
17 comments:
Unless he was wearing that shirt OVER his leathers, I think I know who was the real dumbass.
Exactly what I was going to say pdb.
We wouldn't need leathers if it weren't for the other dumbasses on the road.
I was out riding my wife's bike (she's still on injured reserve so I ride her bike for an hour or so every once in a while to keep it in shape) yesterday afternoon when a blind b...um...person of the female persuasion...in a big pick up truck the next lane over to my left just decided she wanted to be where I was and pulled over with no warning.
I was right beside the cab, not in her blind spot...she just flat out didn't look.
She had her driver's side window down so, after having accelerated back up to speed following my wild braking maneuver to keep from getting squashed, I got in the left lane, pulled up next to her and yelled something to the effect of "are you trying to kill someone?" To which she shouted the inevitable response "I didn't see you".
"Well...You'd have a heck of a lot better chance of seeing someone next time if you freaking LOOK!!!"
She didn't even have the decency to apologize for almost killing me. Apparently, in her opinion, it wasn't her fault that my chosen mode of transportation was so small that she didn't perceive my presence through osmosis.
Use your eyes, cage drivers...that's what they're for.
I've seen plenty of bikers do a good job at trying to Darwin themselves all on their own.
Lots of stupid badges to hand out.
pdb,
I've struggled with that in my 15 years of riding. I used to be of that same mindset - that anyone out riding without full gear was acting foolishly, etc.
I'm not so sure now, though.
Don't get me wrong. I prefer wearing full leathers - when it's comfortable to do so. In July and August, in 90ยบ heat, it's just not practical. When you're hot, you're distracted, and when you're distracted, that's when things go pear-shaped.
Now, I will be the FIRST to agree with you that a LOT of bikers earn the "stupid" badge - heck, on the same road where I saw this shirt some squid on a sportbike came roaring through traffic at at least 20 mph over the prevailing speed. There's someone just looking for skin grafts...
Sailorcurt,
I had a guy blow right through a red light and cross two lines of traffic in front of me once. I was on a four-lane road (two lanes each way) and had the green when grandpa in his Buick didn't even slow down for the red light and proceeded to make a right turn into my lane - and I was in the left of the two lanes, meaning that he not only ran the light, but came across an extra lane of traffic to cut me off.
Completely oblivious.
And yet when I rode by with a few choice words ("Nice red light, Grandpa, maybe next time you'll succeed in killing someone"), I'm sure he went back to the rest home and complained about the eeeeevil biker and probably wrote a letter to his congressman asking to outlaw two wheels...
Main reason why I always look over my shoulder in addition to the mirrors. And yet, even after doing that I've still had one occasion where I didn't see the bike that was pulled right up into the 7 o'clock position and pacing me. Fortunatly, he beeped his horn at me when he saw my turn signals come on, and I apologized afterwards.
I was taught even if I was covered in flashing lights and blaring rock from speakers strapped to my bike that the cagers still wouldn't see me. I figure most riders understand the basic maxim of "They will not look for you so don't assume they will.".
My view on the matter and what I would tell other riders/potential riders was: "Assume every driver around is a serial killer and you and your bike are exactly what they are looking for today. Act accordingly.".
Unfortunately, this forces riders to ride defensive. Make and maintain space for escape and get into the heads of the idiots around you. It works. I know it shouldn't be that way and that riders should have the same road rights as cagers but it just doesn't work that way. They're sheep no matter where you put them.
I always wore a white coverall when I rode. The fact that it had an upside down Polish Racing Team logo on the back may have saved me a couple of times...
I've had plenty of cage drivers attempt to murder me in the 30 years I've been riding...that one just happened yesterday, which was timely considering the nature of the post, which is why I related the story.
People who ride like idiots...are. They deserve whatever they end up getting. Hopefully they won't take anyone else out with them when they splatter themselves across the highway.
And I have to admit that I enjoy taking the occasional risk myself, when I can do so without endangering anyone else. That's my decision to make and I'll suffer (or enjoy) any consequences of that decision.
But I absolutely should not be expected to festoon myself with a hundred pounds of armor plating in defense against idiots. Implying that someone who is injured by another's negligence or stupidity is to blame because they didn't properly prepare for the other person to be an idiot is ridiculous.
If you ever get shot by an idiot at the range who isn't following the four rules, is it your fault because you weren't wearing kevlar?
I think not.
If I'm not wearing full leather and am injured by my own actions, then I have no one to blame but myself.
But if I'm injured by your actions, whether I'm wearing full racing gear complete with armor plated gloves and boots, or riding in shorts a tank top and flip flops...you can bet I'm going to be blaming your inattention or negligence for the injuries I suffer...because that's who is to blame.
With that said: I didn't rack up 30 years of experience riding motorcycles virtually every day by not paying attention and practicing defensive driving (or riding in tank tops, shorts and flip flops).
I do drive VERY defensively...which is why I was here today to tell the story about what happened yesterday. The fact that I do so and have been able to successfully avoid all the idiots who've tried to kill me over the years, doesn't make them any less idiots for trying.
When you are out operating your ton and a half lethal weapon, you are responsible for your actions and any damage they cause...so put down the phone, stop playing with the radio, eat your meals at the dinner table rather than behind the wheel, and pay attention to what the frak you're doing.
I rode for damn near 40 years. The first 5 or 6, until was old enough for my license, MotoX and Enduro.
Protective gear is a must.
Why?
Well for the idiots trying to kill you.
And! If you have never taken a blackbird or similar sized bird in the chest or shoulder, it hurts like a sumbitch with only a tee shirt on!
Leathers and when it really hot, mesh type with the armor.
I work as a medic and I have went on my share of accidents.
Leather and other protective gear saves hide.
Now for the Tee JayG saw! I want one big enough to wear over my riding gear...oh yeah and its Orange!! Can wear it Deer Hunting!!
i dont care how hot it is, if you arnt in full protective gear, you will get hurt more when you go down. They make great protective gear that will cool almost as good as no gear.
Gear saves more lives then loud pipes, and i have watched more then i can count tards on bikes here in Germany that think because they are on two wheels lanes dont matter, and buzz in and out of cages, and live in the blind spot of other cars.
Stupid badges go to both sides. You can be right, just dont be dead right. You might have the right of way, but the truck has the mass of way, and mass wins every fight!
that would make a great helmet sticker though.
I'm not arguing the fact that if you're not wearing full protective gear and go down, you have a better chance of being injured.
That's a given.
Then again, you have even less chance of getting injured if you're traveling in a 3,000 lb, fully enclosed vehicle.
For that matter, for the ultimate safety, you're best bet is probably a dump truck or armored car.
If I wanted to be guaranteed perfect safety when traveling, I wouldn't be on a motorcycle in the first place.
If I'm willing to take the chance of not wearing full protective gear at all times, that's my business...and it doesn't excuse anyone else, from the responsibility of operating their own motor vehicles in a safe manner while sharing the road with me.
True, I may not have had as much road rash had I been wearing a 40lb leather coat when you ran me over...but I wouldn't have had any had you not run me over in the first place.
and it doesn't excuse anyone else, from the responsibility of operating their own motor vehicles in a safe manner while sharing the road with me.
You are responsible for yourself.
Any rider knows that cars don't see you. They just don't.
If I cross in a crosswalk with the light without looking both ways and a guy runs a red light and kills me, it's his fault.
But if I had looked I wouldn't be dead.
I'm responsible for myself.
Being able to blame someone else for an injury I could have avoided doesn't make me happy.
You are responsible for yourself.
Any rider knows that cars don't see you. They just don't
BS.
They don't see you because they aren't looking.
As long as they are traveling in their lane of travel at a rate of speed consistent with road and traffic conditions, it simply doesn't matter whether they see me or not. They have the "right of way" at that time and it is my responsibility to keep from hitting them.
As soon as they vary from that formula by changing lanes, turning, speeding up rapidly, etc, they have the responsibility to watch for and yield to other traffic that now has the "right of way" over them.
The fact that most drivers generally fail to do this with any sort of conscientiousness doesn't relieve them from the responsibility or excuse their failure to do so.
Holding someone else responsible for their actions is hardly "blaming them" for something "I could have avoided".
You can avoid all traffic crashes by never leaving your house. So...by your logic, any injury you suffer as a result of someone else's negligent operation of a motor vehicle (or any other lethal weapon) is your own damn fault...you could have avoided the situation by simply staying safe and sound at home.
If I cross in a crosswalk with the light without looking both ways and a guy runs a red light and kills me, it's his fault.
But if I had looked I wouldn't be dead.
I'm responsible for myself.
Have you even read any of the preceding posts?
Where did anyone say that motorcyclists should be able to ride around without paying attention to what others are doing?
That's what defensive driving is all about.
But saying that it is incumbent upon me to take care of myself by driving defensively STILL does not relieve other drivers of the responsibility to operate their lethal weapons with care and caution or relieve them of the responsibility for the consequences should they fail to do so.
Being able to blame someone else for an injury I could have avoided doesn't make me happy.
I guess you don't get out much then, do you? Or do you happily accept the responsibility for the negligent acts of everyone around you when you could have avoided any situation by not being there in the first place?
I'll paraphrase my question from earlier: If you're at the range and someone negligently discharges a firearm and shoots you, was it your fault?
You may have avoided injury by wearing bullet resistant clothing. Or you could have avoided the possibility of injury at all by simply selling off your guns and eschewing the range altogether.
So, by your logic, it was your fault that you got shot, not the negligent gun handler.
Because you are responsible for yourself, after all, and heaven knows you shouldn't expect the people around you to act responsibly while operating deadly weapons.
Works for pedal-pushers too.
When I road-ride I wear my dirt-gear because it's even more badass (and it's all I got anymore). After helping scrape-up a few too many road-riders and calling the helicopter-ambulance when no amount of leather or helmetry could have made a difference, blood washed across both lanes to the fog-line... Ultimately I couldn't keep convincing myself I wouldn't join them (too) soon - so now I ride dirt most only, but that's just me.
On a tall dual-sport, sitting up high, you can see over cars and pickup trucks and kick in their mirrors and escape across the lawn. My size 13 SIDI dirtboots are comfy too.
Robert - A bike operator who rides in your blind-spot when HE (or she) can so easily ensure that he IS in your mirror is an idioot.
A bike operator who rides in your blind-spot when HE (or she) can so easily ensure that he IS in your mirror is an idioot.
Hear hear.
If I can't see their face (either in a mirror or through a window), they can't see me.
However, if I can see them, then they have absolutely no excuse for claiming they didn't see me...that just means they were too lazy or incompetent to look.
When I took the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course twenty-five years ago our instructor went over wearing all the safety gear and wearing high visibility clothing and then read a letter that a California rider had written to a motorcylce magazine. He said when he started riding on his commute he wore a high visibility orange vest and reflective strips on his helmet, the works for making yourself noticeable. He felt absolutely invisible in traffic. He switched to a beat up leather jacket with a log chain coiled over one shoulder and suddenly everyone on the road saw him and stayed away from him. The moral he took from this was that it was better to look dangerous to the other driver than to appear meek.
This bore out for me when I was commuting to work. The first morning that I had a softball game after work and had my softball bat strapped to the sissy bar in a manner that it looked like I could draw it out to bash a windshield I had all the room in traffic I could have wanted. Drivers don't pay attention unless they perceive a danger or threat to themselves.
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