Warning:
(image courtesy of Robb Allen)Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Drivers License
Now, the last time I looked, buying a firearm as a prohibited person was a felony. At the very least, the illegal alien should be deported immediately; at best, jailed and serving hard time - just like the man they arrested for failing to have ESP. The linked story makes an excellent point - the Øbama Justice department is investigating AZ for their anti-illegal immigrant laws because we shouldn't assume someone's immigration status based on how they look.
Yet Mr. Copeland was supposed to somehow know that his purchaser was an illegal alien... based on how he looked...
I don't know if there's more to the story or not; if perhaps the ATF had been watching Copeland for a while for other transactions or something of this nature. Perhaps there is more here than the story lets on. A quick search for "Paul Copeland Texas gun sale" finds this short article, but there's precious little other information - perhaps folks on the ground in Texas have access to other sources?
If what is outlined above is true, then we all need to be a lot more careful in our private sales. There's a silver lining for those of us in MA - we need to see a MA LTC in order to complete a face-to-face transaction, so we have further proof that the person buying the firearm is legally clear to do so. It doesn't make the MA system right, Constitutional, or acceptable; but at least it does cover one's arse in the case of the ATF and fishing expeditions...
Be careful out there, even more so in allegedly "free" states...
That is all.
Link sent by reader Scott, who apparently feels that PISSED is doing an insufficient job of raising my blood pressure...
In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he “had reasonable cause to believe” he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Freel acted as lead prosecutor in the case.I'm still trying to figure out exactly how Copeland should have magically divined that his buyer was not in the country legally. If the man had a valid Texas driver's license - proving that he was a Texas citizen and therefore not breaking federal law - I can't for the life of me figure out how he was not a citizen. Does Texas issue driver's licenses to illegals? Even MA doesn't do that (yet). Even better, the illegal alien who purchased the firearm was not charged with a crime.
Now, the last time I looked, buying a firearm as a prohibited person was a felony. At the very least, the illegal alien should be deported immediately; at best, jailed and serving hard time - just like the man they arrested for failing to have ESP. The linked story makes an excellent point - the Øbama Justice department is investigating AZ for their anti-illegal immigrant laws because we shouldn't assume someone's immigration status based on how they look.
Yet Mr. Copeland was supposed to somehow know that his purchaser was an illegal alien... based on how he looked...
I don't know if there's more to the story or not; if perhaps the ATF had been watching Copeland for a while for other transactions or something of this nature. Perhaps there is more here than the story lets on. A quick search for "Paul Copeland Texas gun sale" finds this short article, but there's precious little other information - perhaps folks on the ground in Texas have access to other sources?
If what is outlined above is true, then we all need to be a lot more careful in our private sales. There's a silver lining for those of us in MA - we need to see a MA LTC in order to complete a face-to-face transaction, so we have further proof that the person buying the firearm is legally clear to do so. It doesn't make the MA system right, Constitutional, or acceptable; but at least it does cover one's arse in the case of the ATF and fishing expeditions...
Be careful out there, even more so in allegedly "free" states...
That is all.
Link sent by reader Scott, who apparently feels that PISSED is doing an insufficient job of raising my blood pressure...
19 comments:
So the feds convicted him based on his lack of RACIAL PROFILING? Something the feds are themselves completely unwilling to do and in general consider to be repugnant?
*head asplode*
Interesting.... If they can't close the gun show "loophole" legally, they'll go after the sellers ANY WAY THEY CAN! I also agree with Raspberry... sigh...
So the feds say we can't profile based on ethnicity BUT the gun seller is supposed to? So if he didnt see the gun to him, and he turned out to be legal would he have been sued for discrimination??
Nice Job Scott... I need to borrow Jay's meds...
Are we at war with Eastasia or Westasia this week?
Arizona enforcing federal laws against illegal immigration = racial profiling
Private citizen in Texas not racial profiling and sells gun to guy who turns out to be illegal = federal crime.
So, racial profiling is bad, except for when it's not.
Unless there is a lot to this story that's not being reported, this is targeted harassment of an otherwise law abiding gun owner. Not that Obama's crooked DOJ and corrupt AG would ever do that.
TOTWTYTR beat me to it -- I was going to make that same analogy/comparison.
How magnificently STUPID.
Not to get in the way of a serious Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment, but I do want to point out that the Fourth Amendment does not constrain private citizens like it does the government.
IOW, I don't have to treat different people the same way. A different example: I can throw you out of my house because I don't like your political beliefs; the government can't throw you off the town green for same.
That said, this is just asinine. Another example of the government treating us in precisely the opposite way they treat their own.
On the other, other hand, I'd like to see some confirmation on this story - Internet rumors can go crazy, and I have no idea how legit this "Before it's news" site is.
Thanks for raising my blood pressure!
One of the few times I've been happy to live under laws nearly as draconian as Massachusett's. I can't sell a handgun to someone who doesn't have a NY permit, and won't sell a long gun to someone without a pistol permit, or is otherwise known to me. (e.g., I traded a rifle for a handgun with a deputy I know through work. It seemed like a safe transaction.)
If I don't know you and you don't have a pistol permit, I'm going to insist that a long gun goes through a dealer for the 4473; I'll eat the $25 to do it and cover my butt.
Found a news site with the story (link)
It's a matter of the ATF trying to discourage private sales; ethics and common sense don't really matter to them.
A lot more needs to come out about this before any kind of informed opinion can be made. Right now it reeks of missing details. However, if it's true just as printed with no other extenuating circumstances then this ought to be thrown out followed by some serious damages being awarded to the guy.
Austin is probably the biggest liberal stronghold in Texas. That said it's possible you could have had 12 former residents of California on the jury who thought that made sense. Seems rather unlikely though. Again, if what's on the surface is it, this will get the NRA and every other 2A group simply howling from the rooftops in very short order. Of course, the intrepid and highly integral press should get to the bottom of this in no time ;)
There's some serious unanswered questions here. One being "Does Texas issue driver's licenses to illegals?"
The article ordnancecorner linked to says:
"Independent firearms dealer-Paul Copeland says for years he has commonly sold handguns and antique weapons with no problems and prior to his arrest the illegal immigrant showed him what appeared to be a valid Texas driver’s license."
and the article Jay linked to says he "liked to buy, sell, and trade firearms as a hobby."
When they say dealer, does that mean he has an FFL, or are they just using the anti's definition of "he sold one gun"? If he sold often enough, wouldn't he have to have an FFL to do that? If he is a dealer, doesn't he have to do an NICS check on every sale?
OTOH, you would think they would be making a big deal out of it if he did have an FFL and didn't do the check. And Jay's article notes that "Austin P.D. used Copeland’s case as the reason to close down the gunshow."
There are too many unanswered questions, here. We need to know more.
Texas DL identification requirements:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/driverlicense/identificationrequirements.htm
Youngest daughter recently had to produce birth certificate, school id, and some drivers ed documents in order to just get her permit.
Well, after reading ordinancecorners link (THANKS), and hearing how the Federales had admitted to setting up a Sting Operation, I remember it's been about 20 years since Ruby Ridge, and the "Institutional Memory" of that debacle seems to have left that Agency, so expect some more Arrogant, Stupid Frak to come down the pike soon. Wonder how many Innocents will be killed this time when BATFE puts on their "Superman Suits"and tries to enforce another Unconstitutional Law?
Sounds like a set up to me.
I heard about this first here
Note the words "independent firearms dealer" and that he's been selling them "for years."
Sounds like dealing without a license to me.
JayG wrote: ...at least something like this wouldn't happen in MA...
Wanna bet?
See that is why the Feds have such a problem with what AZ is doing. They should already know a person is illegal by what they look like. They shouldn't HAVE to look at their papers.
Right?
Groundhog's link led me to the page below which suggests that you have to be in the country legally, but not necessarily in a status that would make you eligible to purchase firearms. It sounds like a TX DL/ID card is not valid for proof of citizenship or resident alien status required to purchase a firearm.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/DriverLicense/LawfulStatusDLID.htm
--
IANAL (nor do I play one on the Internet) YMMV etc.
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