Talking in GBC the other day, the subject of pocket guns came up. One of the regulars was toying with the idea of one of the micro 380s for pocket carry, and asked my opinion of one versus another. It got me to thinking about the explosion of small, concealable pistols and all the different variants out there today. I thought it might be useful to list as many I could think of with pictures and specs.
All information, including pictures is taken from the respective manufacturer's website. Models will be listed by manufacturer alphabetically - no favorites or other indicators, just facts. The focus is on polymer-framed, pocket-sized .380 pistols from the major manufacturers out there (and one alloy frame, thanks for pointing that out Z...). Without further commentary, I give you the pocket rocket plastic (and alloy) fantastic micro-380s!
Kahr Arms P380
P380
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|---|
| Caliber | .380 ACP |
|---|
| Capacity | 6+1 |
| Operation | Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect |
| Barrel | 2.5", Premium Lothar Walther Match Grade Barrel |
| Length O/A | 4.9" |
| Height | 3.9" |
| Slide Width | .75" |
| Weight | Pistol 9.97 ounces (w/o magazine) |
| Grips | Textured polymer |
| Sights | Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights |
| Finish | Black polymer frame, matte stainless steel slide |
| Magazines | 2 - 6 rd, Stainless |
Kel-Tec P3AT
P3AT
| Calibers: | .380 AUTO |
| Weight unloaded: | 8.3 oz. | 235g |
| Loaded magazine: | 2.8 oz. | 81g |
| Length: | 5.2" | 132mm |
| Height: | 3.5" | 89mm |
| Width: | .77" | 20mm |
| Barrel Length: | 2.7" | 68mm |
| Sight radius: | 3.8" | 97mm |
| Muzzle Energy Max: | 250ft-lbs | 340J |
| Capacity: | 6 + 1 rounds |
| Trigger Pull: | 5 lbs | 23N |
Ruger LCP
LCP
| Caliber: | .380 Auto |
| Capacity: | 6+1 |
| Sights: | Fixed |
| Length: | 5.16" |
| Width: | 0.82" |
| Height: | 3.60" |
| Weight: | 9.40 oz. |
| Barrel Length: | 2.75" |
| Barrel Material: | Alloy Steel |
| Grooves: | 6 |
| Twist: | 1:16" |
SigSauer P238
P238
| Caliber | .380 ACP (9mm short) |
| Trigger Pull SA | 7.5 - 8.5 lbs |
| Sights | SIGLITE Night Sights |
| Grips | Fluted Polymer Grips |
| Frame Finish | Black Hard Coat Anodized |
| Features | Beavertail style frame, fluted grips |
Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380
Bodyguard 380
MSRP: $575.00 *
*Suggested Retail, Dealer Sets Actual Pricing
- Model: BODYGUARD® 380
- Caliber: .380 Auto
- Capacity: 6+1 Rounds
- Barrel Length: 2.75" / 7.0 cm
- Frame Size: Compact
- Action: Double Action Only (Hammer Fired)
- Front Sight: Stainless Steel
- Rear Sight: Drift Adjustable
- Grip: Polymer
- Overall Length: 5.25" / 13.3 cm
- Weight: 11.85 oz / 335.9 g
- Frame Material: Polymer
- Material: Stainless Steel w/Melonite® Finish
- Finish: Matte Black
Taurus TCP
TCP
| Model: 738B |
| Finish: Blue Steel |
| Status: Available |
|
| Caliber: .380 ACP |
| Grips: Checkered Polymer |
| UPC: 7-25327-60696-3 |
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| Capacity: 6 +1 |
| Weight: 10.2 |
| Barrel Length: 2.84" |
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| Construction: Steel |
| Frame: Compact |
| Action: DAO |
|
| Front Sight: Fixed |
| Length: 5-1/4" |
| Trigger Type: Smooth |
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| Order #: 1-738031 |
| MSRP: $336.00 |
So there's the comparison. Like I said, I'm making no recommendations, just giving the specs right from the manufacturers' websites. This is all I could come up with off the top of my head (and without the ushanka on it, there ain't much there...); let me know if I've missed anything.
Of course, the real question now is, which one is the best?That is all.
25 comments:
Removed my original because, derp, you were going with plastic fantastic. So I'll nitpick and say that the Sig has an alloy frame. :-)
As to what's best, the one in your pocket when you need it.
Since I got to fondle most of them during my brief tenure at Lew Hortons, let me point out that the workmanship on the Kahr & the Taurus is impeccable. Don't know how they shoot since there wasn't a range at work, though.
However... the P3AT, for all it's VERY popular.... well... it shoots. Workmanship is pretty sloppy, trigger is horrendous, and it's pretty standard for KelTec owners to do a "fluff & buff" on their pistols to get all the sharp edges off and make them more comfortable to carry.
But if you need a pocket gun and you are limited in cash, well... it's darn cheap.
Ya gets what ya pay for.
waaa sob sob sob waaa .... can't have any ... sniffle, sniffle, sniffle
Since .380 ammo is now the stuff of legend, I would get the heaviest one, since your only hope of using it defensively is to put it in a sock and beat the perp like he owes you money.
Andrew, around here (and most mail order places) .380 seems back to normal. The shop I was in Saturday had a huge pile of .380 Remington UMC 250rnd bulk packs for $49.99.
The little Diamondback 380 seems to be fairly popular: http://diamondbackfirearms.com/DB380/
I have an LCP. It's o.k. Trigger is long, bark is very loud (at least to me, compared to a PPK), carry is very convenient, so far it has been 100% reliable, but that's only with a few boxes through it.
No expert on the matter; previous .380s have been PPK, 230, Beretta 84 & 84. All of which were nicer in fit & finish, accuracy, control; all higher in price. LCP carries better, though.
I carry it when I can't carry a gun.
I'd like to have a few of the others for fun. Are they all approved for purchase in Massachusetts?
85. Not two 84s; one each.
Good information. I have the LCP and the P238, both are reliable. The LCP has sharper recoil, but manageable. The P238 is nice to shoot, so I try to practice with it as much as I can. The sights are bigger and more usable than the LCP. I enjoy them both. Like ZerCool said...
"As to what's best, the one in your pocket when you need it."
Ancient Woodsman,
At press time, only the P238 is approved for sale in MA. I've talked to people at Smith & Wesson and they tell me that the Bodyguard 380 will be approved for sale, it just takes forever.
Depending on MSRP, I may pick one up.
The MA-approved P238s are selling for ~ $700-$800 or so, too rich for my blood especially when I have a 380 Mak and a Browning BDA-380 I never shoot as it is. The P238 would be a novelty more than anything, as it's twice as heavy as the P3AT with the same capacity.
The Bodyguard 380 *should* sell for $450-$500 or so, and while that's a little steep compared to the P3AT/LCP/TCP, it does come with the integral laser - add in a Crimson Trace grip laser to either the P3AT or the LCP and the cost is the same.
All reports on the Bodyguard 380 so far indicate that it's at least as good as the P3AT/LCP...
More here:
www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
"As to what's best, the one in your pocket when you need it."
No offense, but sayings like that drive me nuts. It is a logical fallacy, by confusing and side-stepping the root issue, AND it it the opposite of what people should do.
The “best” (a nebulous and relative term) is what you SHOULD have in your pocket “when you need it."
No one (sane) would say “The best bug-out-bag is the bag you have when you need it!” Because ill preparation and a false sense of security mean you'll be holding an empty sack while you watch the flood/fire/etc destroy your house.
Or how about “Your safe room is the room you are in when you, uh, need.. to.. be.. safe...”
Just doesn't have that ring to it.
Clint - I think his point was that they are all fine weapons on that list, and any one of them would do as well as another.
None of them are what you "should" choose, I agree about that point. I have a Beretta 96 and should choose that, but sometimes my LCP just packs when nothing else will. Optimal? Lord no, but the big 'ole 96 can't go and the Ruger beats a harsh word.
My vote goes to the LCP. Mine has worked well for me, but no one else who has ever shot it has enjoyed the experience. So, I guess my vote doesn't mean much.
Which one is best? The one in .45 ACP ; )
I had the P3AT, ditched it for a LCP, and ditched that for the Kahr. The Kahr has real sights.
Hmn. My AMT 380 backup is quite suitable as a blunt object.
“I think his point was that they are all fine weapons on that list, and any one of them would do as well as another.”
I know, but what he meant is not what he said.
“None of them are what you "should" choose,...”
I, humbly, disagree. There comes a time when, for most people, they just cannot carry the “big gun.” Sometimes that means a service size firearm other times a sub-compact gun, nonetheless, it won't be with them when they walk out the door for reasons beyond their control. And when people can't carry a sub-by or a snubby that is what the mouse guns are for. Let's face it, if we could carry (and dress for) what we want, when we want, how we want 100% of the time, we could afford bodyguards.
When you need to compromise, that is the time to make the most out of your, now even more limited, resources. That makes what you do choose all the more important.
About the guns themselves, when I went to a store that had both a LCP and a P3AT, I noticed that the keltec had a better trigger and the lcp sights where better against a white wall, but were too shiny, so when contrasted to the dark carpet the glare made it impossible to tell where the top of the front sight was. The p3at was better in that case, you could find the front sight, if you looked hard. And it was $10 cheaper. However these differences where not night and day, but just enough.
BTW, thank you for the pleasant conversation.
+1 to Less, my vote goes for the PM45. If not the J-frame in .38 +P or .357, because you can find ammo for it and ti can penetrate paper!
heh, on a serious note, as cool as the P238 is, I'm kinda geeked out by a SAO pocket gun, and for on-belt carry I'd prefer something a little larger in all detentions.
And of course I'm so pissed at S&W for fucking up a perfectly good pocket gun with a manual safety!
Their Bodyguard .38 seems to do just fine with a DAO trigger...but put a slide on top and "Hide the Children, Martha!"
However... the P3AT, for all it's VERY popular.... well... it shoots. Workmanship is pretty sloppy, trigger is horrendous, and it's pretty standard for KelTec owners to do a "fluff & buff" on their pistols to get all the sharp edges off and make them more comfortable to carry.
But if you need a pocket gun and you are limited in cash, well... it's darn cheap.
Or, as in my case, it was the only one of the bunch available three years ago, and that's why I have one today. Getting a laser is much more of a priority than swapping out the P3AT for another mousegun, as it's proven to be reliable and accurate enough for the job I want it to do.
Clint - Thank you, too; I always enjoy a good conversation/friendly debate.
Jay - Thanks for hosting a nice place for friendly discussions.
Harris Tactical Group published an annual for pocket guns this year. Called "pocket pistols" it has at least 100 firearms. Their top 10 were any of 5 S&W J-frames, Glock 26, Kel-Tec P-3AT, Walther .380 ACP PPK, Charter Arms Bulldog, Ruger LCR (I like the LCP better), Kahr PM9, Seecamp LWS .32, Kimber Ultra Carry II, and (believe it or not) the NAA Mini revolvers!
It's worth mentioning the Bersa .380, especially the Concealed Carry model. It's a thinned down Walther PPK immitation. I have one and so far, no problems feeding or breaking. Sights aren't much, but they have improved them and when you're accustomed to them, the gun is surprisingly accurate.
Downside: bigger than most of these, heavier, no crimson trace laser for CC model.
Upside: Capacity of 8+1; far fewer issues with accidental magazine release than Kel-tec; thin enough for easy concealment.
I love the Kel-Tec P9 . 9mm and no fuss finding .380 hollow points.
It's also about the same size as most of those.....
Kahr PM9 - fits in the back pocket of my jeans or pretty much anywhere else one of those 380s will go. Works for those rare times when the .45 just can't come along.
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