Off the top of my head (and we all know what's there, and it ain't much), the only double-stack 1911s of which I am aware are the ParaOrdnance 14-45 line and the 2011 line from STI. Custom 1911 builders, such as Caspian and SVI, offer double stack frames, but to the best of my knowledge (which I will be the first to admit is limited, given that the 1911 is supposed to be a single stack platform, and any deviation is an abomination unto John Moses Browning Himself (PBUH) only Para and STI offer double stacks off-the-shelf as it were.Jay,
Quick question, are there any 1911s with double stack or at least more than 7 round mags out there?? I’ve been looking at the Remington 1911 R1 but 7 rounds…doesn’t allow for too many misses when a six pack of trouble is coming down on you.
Gene
I understand Gene's concern - two 7 round magazines with one in the chamber is 15 rounds, or three fewer rounds than a Glock 17 or Smith & Wesson M&P 9 with a single, flush-fit magazine. It's awfully tempting to give in to the "more is better" camp and want to move up to something with 30 rounds or more in two magazines. There's a couple things to consider, though: most full-sized 1911s will accept 8 round magazines interchangeably with 7 rounds - I personally do not know of any 1911 that takes USGI mags that won't also take an 8 round magazine. Add in a quality 10 round back up magazine, and that's 19 rounds total - not too shabby, and let's face it - if you can't get the job done with 19 rounds of .45 ACP 230 grain goodness, is another 5 - 10 rounds really going to help?
What other options are there for Gene if he'd like a high-capacity 1911?
That is all.
18 comments:
When it comes to carry guns I prefer single-stack semi-autos for two big reasons.
A single stack (with the 1911 pattern being one of the best at this) are REALLY slim. When using a good holster that holds the gun tight to your body for both concealment and for security having a really slim gun makes everything vastly more comfortable. The second being carrying a reload is that much easier because the mags are even skinnier than the guns.
Now being a statistics g33k you'll note that most defensive gun uses involve no shots fired. Just HAVING a gun and offering resistance to violence is going to be the #1 thing that will save your life.
In the remaining 10% most of them the number of shots fired before the gunfight ends is generally a small number.
And thankfully most of us will go to our grave at a ripe age having never drawn our guns to defend our lives.
That being said you don't want to become a statistical outlier.
For me the most comfortable thing to carry (both physically, and proactively) is a 1911 loaded 8+1, with two more 8-round Wilson Combat magazines in my mag carrier.
That gives me 25 rounds between 3 reloads.
Yeah it would be better to have that many rounds in two reloads, or a rifle with a 20-round magazine fixed. But I don't feel under-gunned with my 1911.
Yeah, I think I'd break contact instead of trying to shoot six people. Besides, odds are one round each isn't going to do the job. 45 ACP isn't exactly the Hammer of Thor here.
Anyway the STI 2011s are very close to 1911 standard width grip dimensions, and very comfortable to hold. I've got a 40 S&W 2011 and it feels wonderful. The Para seems more blocky somehow; I really don't like their double stacks.
The thing about carrying a double stack 10mm or 45 ACP pistol is the extra mag is bloody huge, as Weer'd mentioned. It's hard to conceal, or uncomfortable depending how you do it. An IWB mag carrier is right out in my opinion, and I've never like a large, fat magazine in my pocket. I can open carry to my heart's content so when I do carry my Glock 20 or XD45 I just carry the mag in a belt carrier, but that's still much less comfortable than a 1911 mag or two.
I mostly carry low capacity guns and have never felt worried about an encounter. I've been carrying a S&W 625 lately with two moon clips on my belt and one more in a jacket pocket. Normally I carry a full size 1911 with a single reload. With either, I have a Ruger LCP in my left front pocket for backup.
At any rate, my recommendation would be an STI VIP or Eagle 5.0.
If you've got more than six bad guys coming at you, you need to shoot and run. Run enough and you'll find a place to reload.
Actually, if you find yourself facing six bad guys, you've got a failure in your threat assessment somewhere.
Heh, on the 6-pack of Goblins. Double-tap the first one, and Double-tap the 2nd, and see if last 4 aren't running to beat the band...
There is just something about seeing your buddy gutted by a 230 gr. JHP that takes the fight out of a lot of people.
Especially if they pegged you as an easy mark, not somebody willing to sell them defensive violence wholesale...
A friend of mine bought a ParaO, years ago.
A few days later, he was telling his live-in about it.
She heard him say "Pair of Ordnance", and asked where the other one was.
He went out and bought another.
Fine shooters, I liked them.
Skul
What other options are there for Gene if he'd like a high-capacity 1911?
Two 1911s.
The answer has been around since 1929. A 1911 in .38 Super. Nine round magazine plus one in the chamber. Use the Cor-Bon +P loadings (and a recoil buffer!).
I really don't think anyone down range will be able to tell the difference between being hit with a .38 Super or a .45acp.
Yeah, slim is why I like the old Smith M-39 series.
In the wake of the Tucson shooting, I saw a link to a video of two guys (whose names escape me at the moment, and I can't remember where I saw it to find out) demonstrating the difference in actual shooting time between a person engaging 15 targets with a Glock 19 vs. a person engaging the same targets with a single stack 1911. The time difference was a little under 2 seconds due to the mag swap on 1911. Practicing your mag swaps could get that down I would think. Having said that, I believe Springfield Armory also offers a double stack option in addition to the Para, SVI and STI offerings.
Springfield Armory made several double stack 1911s that are widely available, although I don't think there are any in current production.
Rock Island has a double stack.
Wilson, Kimber and Bul made a polymer framed double stack. Neither the Wilson or Kimber are still in production, but I believe the Israeli made Bul - who made Kimber's gun - are still being imported. All should be available in the used market, although finding mags for these may be a challenge.
And, most bespoke custom builders offer a double stack option. Generally built on Caspian frames.
I probably missed some as well.
Para makes a double stack, sorta 1911ish gun. If he wants/needs a .45ACP with high capacity, I would say let go of the 1911 design and get an XD45 or a Glock.
Well, keeping the single stack, there ARE 8-round mags out there. I have two of these: http://bit.ly/gklYPj from Kimber and they work great in my DW Bobtail. Of course that's only one more than a standard mag.
I lurv the Paras for the capacity but much more for the double action LDA.
Hammer-back carry is too exciting for Grampa sometimes-
Springfield Armory currently produces one hi-cap 1911, a version of their GI model - http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=11
K.Erickson, the video you mentioned was linked on SayUncle
There are extended capacity single-stacks too, yanno.
When carrying, grip length (including magazine) is much more a factor than thickness, but slim tends to be much more comfortable.
(Regarding Tucson, it's worth noting a G19 with a 33 round mag is not a "concealable" handgun, and the shooter had to take considerable pains to keep it hidden before he started his attack.)
There are also plenty of 10, 11, 12, and more round single-stack 1911 mags out there. Carry 7+1, plus 15, plus 15 of .45 ACP, and if that doesn't get the job done, to borrow the old saying, you don't need more ammo, you need close air support. Danger Close.
I'd like to thank everyone for their input. Since I'd like to stay as faithful to the original Browning design as possible I think I'll go with the 8+1.
Veeshir, I like your thinking, 2 1911s, sadly I doubt my CFO (Mrs.) would agree.
Gene,
Wise choice.
IIRC, when analyzing ONLY police gunfights where the officer actually got in the game (leaving out those incidents where the officer was gunned down by surprise and got none, or maybe one, round off), and leaving out single shot gunfights, where the cop turned the bad guy off like a light, they found a remarkable correlation.
When officers almost universally carried 6-shot revolvers, the average number of shots fired was just a skosh under 6 rounds (like "five point something").
When most cops had moved to higher capacity semiautos, so the average onboard ammo count was about 15 (14+1, as the lower capacity single stacks and the remaining revolvers brought down the Glock numbers), the average number of shots fired was just a skosh under 15 (like "fourteen point something").
In other words, in most gunfights, where officers didn't start off in a losing proposition, AND the officers needed more than a single round, most cops shot to slide lock (or, "clicky-clicky" for the revolvers).
You're better off with 7+1, 8+1, or even a cylinder of 5 or 6 that feels good in your hands and you shoot well, than choosing the DeathBlaster2000 solely because it can carry a box and a half of .45ACPs.
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