"I know NOTHING about long guns. Rifles, shotguns, etc. Anyway, I'd like to expand my horizons. Lot's of folks up here have rifles and shotguns but I want to be able to know what I should ask to try out. And what I should avoid. I'm thinking I'd like to try clays at some point, I belong to a range where I can do that. And I'm thinking home defense too. I guess I could google it but I was hoping you guys could steer me in the right direction with maybe a little 'primer' on the subject. Might be informative for others also, with little to no rifle/shotgun knowledge. Or even a link to some articles that can explain it all.I'm a big fan of the .22LR cartridge for getting folks to learn to shoot, and this does not change when it comes to rifles. Setting a new shooter up with a bolt-action, slide or lever action, and semi-automatic .22LR is a great way to get them used to the different mechanisms of rifles and basic riflery without putting your shoulder - or your wallet - out. A nice CZ 452, a Marlin 39A, and a Ruger 10/22 would make for an excellent first outing with longarms.
So, what's a good 'beginner' rifle/shotgun? And do I want a rifle or shotgun, or both and which should I get first? I'm cool with large caliber handguns but not sure I want something in a long gun that will put my shoulder out and I don't even know what the different 'gauges' mean as far as power goes.
For centerfire rifles, it's a little tougher. It's very easy to get into something with a lot of kick (.308, /45-70, etc.) or overly complicated (the AR-15 platform). If possible, a similar approach to rimfire would be good - a bolt-action Remington 700 in .223 Remington, a lever action Winchester in .30-30, and an AR-15 would round out the intro to rifles. None kick overly hard, all should be quite accurate at modest range (no more than 50 yards for a beginner), and the basics all get covered again.
For shotguns, it's more complicated. 12 gauge kicks harder, but has significantly more ammunition types available. 20 gauge is a close second, and might be preferable to someone averse to recoil. A side-by-side or over-under to start, a pump-action to show the versatility of the shotgun platform, and a nice autoloader for busting clays would round out the scattergun category. A little extra time with the pump-action shotgun would be ideal - especially if multiple barrels are available. Switching between an 18.5" barrel with buckshot for home defense, a rifled 22" barrel for deer hunting, and a 26" barrel for fowling make the pump-action shottie an ideal first shotgun.
Anything I've missed or other suggestions?
That is all.
27 comments:
Good recommendations Jay, and I'd almost say a 20ga for a FIRST shotgun, rather than a 12ga.
I'm not very familiar with rifles; so for my first rifle I bought something almost idiot proof -- a Mosin Nagant 91/30.
A bolt action rifle designed to be used and maintained after a very short course of instruction.
Plenty of forums and reference material around for it with the added bonus of not much cash invested.
I picked mine up for $109. Add another $90 for 440 rounds of ammo and I'm learning (slowly) for not much outlay.
Plenty of other military surplus rifles out there also -- in a wide variety of calibers
20 gauge single shot shotgun, aka "the farmer's friend".
You can still get them for $100, cut the stock down, install a quality recoil pad, sling posts, an XS bead, sling and a butt cuff to hold extra ammo.
Practice loading it, eyes open, eyes closed.
Shootin' Buddy
I'd quibble about a single or double for a first outing with a shotgun, particularly if recoil is a concern. Those tend to be light enough to not soak up a lot of the kick, and proper form becomes absolutely critical to avoid bruising.
I'd start with a semi-auto 20ga, single-loaded, if recoil is a big concern, or a pump 20ga if recoil isn't as big a deal.
Ruger 77/22. Bolt action. Cheap ammo and reliable. With the built in "pause" with a bolt action it may force the new shooter to work more on the funadamentals. You can get a good one second hand for not much money.
You should also include the possibility of the Savage/Stevens line of rifles. The Savage Mk II in 22LR is deadly accurate. And, for a centerfire rifle for beginners, the Stevens 200 is excellent (in 223 and many other calibers). You get an excellent centerfire rifle for about $200.
For a rifle - I'd start with a 10/22, or a Savage Bolt, and get some training ASAP, before you develop bad habits.
An Appleseed is the best place to start for almost any beginning rifle shooter.
For the shotgun, I'd rather buy something to keep and use. If you think you'll be able to handle the recoil, just get the 12 gauge. Pump is the best choice for versatility, and if you can talk someone into going to the range with you to show you how to hold it the first time out, the recoil shouldn't be a problem.
It's not the weapon, it's the TRAINING. I'd recommend that he contacts the local Appleseed Coordinator, get an appropriate .22 lr, and start from there.
I agree with Les! I had next to no experience with rifles when I went to my first Appleseed. I made Rifleman at my second. Great training, great history and great fellowship! Oh, and for other women out there, the cost for Appleseed is next to nothing for us!
You don't say what you want to do with said longarm, so the question is a little open-ended.
For training, any .22 rifle is the choice. Doesn't really matter what action it is, you have no experience so you don't know what you'll like. If you do wan to do an Appleseed for training, get a semi-auto.
For hunting large game, you need a centerfire rifle. Which one is the subject of much debate, and there is no right answer for everything. It's also a significant investment for a good one, so figure out if that's your interest, then you can get advice on what to get.
For a shotgun if you're an adult, I would say get a 12 gauge. A 20 gauge has less recoil, but it also holds less shot which means hitting moving targets is harder. As far as which one, it's hard to go wrong with a Remington 870. There are millions of them out there, and there's a reason for that. An "Express" model is cheaper, but I've heard they aren't as good, so look at the Wingmaster line.
Bill, I'll argue the 12-v-20 thing. I have both, and the 20 is my go-to gun for a lot of things. There's more options in ammo for a 12, but payload isn't a deciding factor for most of it. A field load for the 12ga is generally 1-1/8oz of #6 shot, where a 20ga will throw 7/8oz. The quarter-ounce difference in payload means MUCH less recoil, and you're going from ~250 pellets to ~200. For many people, that's a VERY acceptable trade-off.
As to the 870s - the Express is a less-expensive model because they use cheap wood or synthetic for the stocks, and parkerize the action and barrel instead of polishing and bluing. Action-wise, they're identical, and I've been quite happy with both of my 870 Express models.
I'll echo the other commenters on the Savage MkIIs - amazingly accurate boltguns.
I think the reader who asked the question originally has the right idea - try some out before making a choice. There have been some great suggestions here, and I plan to follow up on a few myself.
The one piece of advice I'd offer is about recoil: don't knock it until you try it. Unless you're very small or prone to dislocated shoulders, go ahead and try a friend's 12 gauge or large caliber rifle. Get him to show you how to hold it, then fire off a round and see what you think. If it wasn't as bad as you expected, fire off a few more.
I was nervous about recoil at first, but I noticed that lots of average people shoot big guns without a paramedic standing by. So when a guy offered to let me try his 12 gauge I took it. I hit 2 of 2 clays and was hooked. I bought my own shotgun the next week.
Marlin model 60 is a great plinker, pretty cheap too - comparable to a Ruger 10/22. Lots of fun, dead accurate so you know that if you miss, it's not the gun's fault.
I like the Marlin 336 in 30-30 if you want a handy general purpose gun too. Ammo's not too dear (and is good on deer). It was my first full size rifle once I got decent on the .22.
For kids, I recommend the Cricket - I've trained my kids on it.
Don't forget how important fit is for a shotgun. I have short arms, so my first shotgun was a youth model because on a full-size pump 12 ga my arm overextended in order to pump.
Is there anyone in the area who can go with her to teach her about how to gauge whether or not she can reach the necessary controls?
A quality air rifle is also an economical way to learn rifle fundamentals in the back yard or garage.
Bob has it right! go Mosin Nagant, and then use that (and the money you save on gun and ammo) to figgure what you like and don't like.
Also the recoil of the 7.62x54R and that steel butt-plate means you'll get your rifle form down pat because she'll bite you if you don't get a good rifle form.
Also huge plus on .22s They will help you concentrate on sight picture and form...but again you can get away with some sloppy form with a .22.
My first and so far only gun is a .22 bolt action with open sights. I got my training (about a year ago) through a NRA course.
I'm curious about the comments in support of Appleseed. I thought that that was for more advanced, rather than just starting shooters. How would you rate it against the NRA's curriculum?
Another centerfire longarm option for a pistol owner is a carbine in the same caliber as the pistol.
As for an affordable combined shotgun and .22 LR solution, I rather like my Rossi youth matched pair: single-shot, swappable .22LR and 20-gauge barrels. The local Dick's Sporting Goods had this combo on sale a while back for $120 before a $20 rebate.
+1 for Lupis42. Get the 10/22, out fit is as a liberty training rifleand go to an Appleseed even or 3. Once you are a marksman you'll be ready for a larger caliber and will have plenty of range/trigger time to know what you want.
If a shotgun is desired I would go with the 870 field gun. Excellent reliability and ergomonics, plenty of options to tart it up later if desired. Load it with trap loads (1oz or less) for familiarization and training, even self defense if your walls are thin and neighbors are close.
Agree with Jewish Marksman. I spent many hours with air rifles and pistols as a kid. Dirt cheap, and many are very accurate.
Maybe one of your readers can point us to an article on currently available, accurate air rifles.
Well I'd tell her to find a friend who has a variety of pistols, rifles, and shotguns and have them take her to the range. If she happened to be in eastern Wyoming or Western South Dakota, I could help out with that.
I've only shot trap, and never clays... My suggestion for a shotgun would be a 12ga 1100. The semi won't kick quite as hard, and it's easy to get different barrels for different disciplines (hunting, clays, trap). As a small female, I'd say go with 12 over 20,unless you're going with a O/U or single gun.
JayG, self plug here... I wrote this with new shooters in mind. It's geared towards rifles (larger caliber) but I figure it might possibly be a little help. Possibly not, but maybe!
http://antitango.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/this-is-my-boomstick/
If you go with a .22LR, I HIGHLY recommend the Winchester Wildcat. It comes with 4 mags (1x 5 round, 3x 10 round), has a heavy barrel, 2 front sling swivels, 1x rear, solid wood stock. Bolt action. VERY SMOOTH on the action w/ adjustable trigger. PERFECT for teaching fundamentals and getting them used to shooting. My wife is not a fan of shooting, but the grin on her face is ear to ear when she shoots mine.
The most fun and useful long gun we have is a pellet gun, We can plink away at the numerous chipmunks (who are hard to hit) and not disturb the neighbors with the report.
Sure, can't take out anything big, but it is something that you can stash by your back door and use on a daily basis.
Appleseed will make a good shooter out of a novice by teaching the basics and safety. A more experienced shooter will gain more confidence. A superlative shooter will get recruited to help teach. It is not unusual to find active duty military marksmen on the line next to someone who has never fired a rifle. I have seen both benfit form Appleseed, but they will likely get different things from it.
melody is spot on. I watched a young girl get the snot kicked out of her by a 20 ga. 870 that dad handed her - hit 2 of 25 by dumb luck. Way too long for her, drop all wrong too. Happened to be a guy there with a daughter her size, and a fitted 12 ga. O/U. He spent some time helping her and she broke 19 with no recoil pain. Your eye is the rear sight on a shotgun and it better fit. I'd not let her shoot a shotgun until someone checks the fit.
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