So yesterday I discussed the AR-platform rifle I'd like to build. The goal is to have something suitable for long(er) range shooting, either standard target, plinking, or varmint hunting being the main goals. Basically, I want something that I can comfortably shoot out to 300 yards, but something that's going to work fine at 100 - 150 yards as well - actually, the bulk of the shooting will be done at the shorter ranges just based on the rifle range at my gun club.
With the object of shooting from 100 - 300 yards, a variable power scope is a necessity. After 50 - 75 yards I'm beyond the limits of my forty year old eyes as far as iron sights or red dots, so a scope with reasonable power is going to be mounted on the AR pretty much from the get-go. Since I'm not a long distance rifleman by any stretch of the imagination, I can't justify dropping several thousand dollars on a 1/2 MOA scope so I can get dime-sized groups at 500 yards. Ain't gonna happen.
I'm looking for a variable power scope, with a range between 4-6 and 12-16, that's going to run somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 - $300. I know this is going to exclude the real high-end scopes like Leupold, but should be sufficient to give ~ 2 MOA accuracy out in the field. Basically, I want to be able to send a prairie dog to meet his lil prairie dog maker at 300 - 400 yards. I'm thinking of something along these lines:
(image from here)
Bushnell Banner series, 4-16X 40mm with illuminated reticle. Should be able to bring the 300 yard targets in to where I can see them, and still not be over-scoped for 100 yards by any stretch. This is a representative, mind you; I don't mind going higher end to get higher quality - I'm just not sure of the hierarchy of rifle scopes. I know that Leupold, Nikon, Swarovski, Zeiss, etc. make high-end scopes, but I'm not vain enough to think I'm anywhere near good enough to be able to use even half of a $3,000 scope...
So, what's a good scope in this range, in your opinion?
That is all.
16 comments:
The next best thing to a new Leupold: a used Leupold. They have a lifetime guarantee, and supposedly it applies to any owner.
I got a Vari-X III 2.5-8x with B&C reticle on my .308. It might be perfect for your application; the B&C reticle isn't any mil-dot by any means, but it functions in a similar way for those of us less sophisticated than the tactical Mark IV crowd.
And, it was less than $300.00. Not by much, but still in your ball park.
You like Nikon products, it looks like Midway has one in your requirements for less than 300. I don't think Leupold makes a 4-16X power scope, if they did it would be more money.
Don't rule out the quality manufacturers just because you don't want to break the bank. Leupold's got quite a few scopes that would fit your bill in the $300-500 range, including a couple scopes designed specifically for use with the AR-15, i.e. http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-3-9x40-mark-ar-riflescope-duplex-mildot-67165-67160-rifle-scope-personalized.html or http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-mark-ar-4-12x40-riflescope-matte-finish-fine-duplex-mil-dot-reticle-67390-673.html
For a 12" prairie dog at 400 yards, 9x is more than ample, although if light levels are a factor then a bigger objective will almost always be better.
Jay,
First, I second the comments above, i.e. look at used quality glass, or look a little harder for new quality glass.
Second, remember that MOA is an angular measurement, corresponding to (approx) 1 inch/100yds. So if you want to kill prairie dogs at 400 yds, 1 MOA at that range is a 4 inch group. You want to get smaller than that for reliable hits on a small furry target.
This is why I'm practicing with MY Savage Mod 10 in .308. I can't live up to the rifle OR the glass yet.
I don't have a scoped AR but, on other rifles, I've been very happy with Leupold and Burris scopes.
Midway USA has some fairly good sales on scopes. Also Mid South Shooter's Supplies and Natchez.
Be careful on going too high in magnification. I put a 6-20x on my HB boltie, & you can see your heart beat in the cross-hairs, even on a bi-pod. Aggravating, & I'd not go that route again.
Leupold makes a 4-12x 40mm which meets your $$ requirements; 12x should be good for long yardage, & 40mm objective should gather light adequately- that Leupold glass is good stuff.
I've been happy with my Primary Arms 4-16x44 on the AR. It's cheap and made in China but works fine.
The Millet TRS1 (4-16x50) is good too.
Jay, I suggest that you mosey on down to wherever the Occupy Baahstahn crowd is crapping out these days, and prominently display a sign with your "demand" for a U.S. Optics 3.8x22 44mm SN-3 scope.
(Just tell 'em it's an Apple product, they'll be cool with it.)
Seriously though, Jetfxr69 is right about the 400 dispersion of 1 MOA. You're likely building a 1/2 MOA (or better) rifle. Put a scope at least that good atop the thing, willya?
So, I second the motion on a good, used Leupold, or kick your price range up to $500, and get a better-grade Nikon, at least.
Don't pass up looking at the Zeiss Conquest line, either.
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Take a look at the Sightron products; they tend to be very good quality for the money.
Don't skip on the optics. You're paying for more than just the quality of the glass but also the mechanical operation and stability of the sight system.
There's always someone at the range when I go who has a overly cheap optic on top of what would be an excellent rifle. Their shot patterns are wide open because the optic jitters every shot.
Just because you feel don't qualify now for the optic is no reason to skip. If anything it provides a better base for self-improvement. It's much more difficult for you to blame your equipment when you have good equipment.
If you're needing to not break the bank, used glass is a great way to go. Especially from Leupold because of their warranty mentioned above. I have Nikons on my 22's and they have been good. My father-in-law had one on his 7mm Mag and he was holding about 1.5MOA at 400. If it can take a magnum load and still do 1.5 the optics are excellent for the price.
A note for dogging. As mentioned above you're wanting 1/2 MOA rifle. At 400 yards that gives you a 2 inch circle of impact. Look for a scope with preferably 1/4 MOA adjustments. Nightforce makes some that are 1/8th but they are a pain in the ass to move ranges between ranges. You see a lot of Nightforce optics at Boomershoot, they are nice, but I'd never do the 1/8th adjustments. I can move from 400 to 700 very quickly, it takes me about 1 full turret. If it was 1/8th it take 2. I don't feel the 1/8th really get you anything.
A note so you don't make the same mistake I did. First Mil-Dot rectical I got was on the second focal plane. These scopes are usually cheaper but makes the rectical useless at all but one power setting. Putting it on the first focal plane means that the rectical will change in size as you change in magnification. Also if you want a rectical for ranging and holds, do a TMR, not the Mil-Dot, more accurate and quick to work with. Also you won't have the dots eating up your field of view, just hash marks.
Also make sure the scope has turret style adjustments. Some scopes require adjustments to be made with a screw driver or a quarter. That's all well and good for a hunting rig, it's something completely different when shooting at range in wind.
I'm a longtime fan of Bushnell products, bang-for-buck they are pretty good, especially their Elite line. That line is right in your range. Also, Redfield scopes are Leupold's entry line, now, made on the same lines with same coatings/purgings as their higher priced models. Biggest difference is cost savings on the cosmetics. Burris's Fullfield II line is competitive in price/quality, and still, I think, made of steel. 4-16x50 is often a lot more than 3-9x40, and 9x is quite a bit of 'bigger,' but I generally discount the 'counting heartbeats' argument for lower power. Just cause you don't see it in a lower power scope doesn't mean its not happening...
Well, it appears that the old adviced that "you should pay as much for your scope as you do for your rifle" has been decided against.
Under those circumstances, and in protest, I would recommend the Nikon M223 range:
http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Products/Riflescopes/M-223/index.page
I still believe you would be happier long term with a Vortex PST, but I understand the budget pressures!
http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/viper_pst_riflescopes
Spend on the right scope once, then you won't have to do it again!
Jay, I have a Leupold 3-9x40 that you are welcome to borrow as a baseline.
A word of caution on variable power scopes - some dont repeat zero as the magnification changes. Zero it at one power and hope that works across the board.
And mildots can easily become mildonts with variable reticles.
I strayed from the Leupold line with my last scope purchase - and have been happy thus far with a Vortex Diamondback - should be right around $300ish for what you're looking for. Not great - but a solid and reliable piece of work.
I'll second the advice to look at Sightron. They're a lesser known name but I am very happy with mine. The adjustments are very repeatable. I ran it through the "square" when I first sighted it in on my AR and it moved point of impact predictably and returned to zero perfectly.
Best thing my friend, is to go to your nearest/best dealer and take a few outside. Look through them carefully.
Myself, I would recommend a 3200 or 4200 Elite by Bushnell. I also have a Zeiss Conquest, which I REALLY like.
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