Jewish groups ban concealed weapons
Many Jewish congregations and organizations statewide will effectively ban concealed weapons on their premises.They think that this:
They are formulating these policies in response to the state’s new concealed carry law, 2011 Wisconsin Act 35, which took effect Nov. 1
will prevent... You know, I don't even know what they think it will prevent. They claim that they don't want kids getting ahold of guns or folks with no training just blazing away at bad guys, but the reality is that they might as well claim the sign will keep out dragons. They put up this fanciful argument about there being a school in the building, and some claptrap about "unintended accidents", when the truth is that forcing people to disarm means more fiddling with firearms. More fiddling with firearms = more chances for one of those accidents.
Someone that's not going to be safe with a firearm isn't going to give a hairy rat's patoot about a sign, nor about staying within the law. Concealed carry permit holders have, time and time again, state and state again, proven to be the most law abiding, most careful citizens on the streets. The rate at which CCW holders commit crimes or have "unintended accidents" is at least an order of magnitude lower than that of the police. Yet guess who doesn't have to disarm in these places?
It's stunning, quite frankly, to hear this coming from a Jewish group. One would think that a group that just last century saw literally millions of its kind forced into ovens in an attempt to wipe them off the face of the earth would be amenable to self defense. Yet time and time again, the Jewish community has, by and large, embraced politicians and policies that would have them at the mercy of those who would do them harm.
Skidmark puts it very well:
It has always been the enigma of philosophy/sociology/religion that the Jews, perhaps the most persecuted group in the Western world, are the group most likely to refuse to take steps to defend themselves. They wait for the coming of the Messiah, G-d's messenger, to arrive and announce the kingdom of heaven. But they seem to be stuck with the notion that they, as a group as well as (for the most part) individually, should do nothing to try and ensure that they are around when the Messiah does arrive. I am convinced that the pillar of smoke and fire that led the Jews out of Egypt was not created from the bodies of dead Jews. On the other hand, I am having great difficulty believing the signal of the arrival of the Messiah will not be the last Jew going up in flames."Never again" is the cry from the Holocaust, but it's damn hard to defend against it using rocks and sticks. I'd prefer a .45 and a .308 myself.
That is all.
11 comments:
Jay,
The case of Aryan asswipe Buford Furrow is burned into my psyche, and I am embarrassed to call myself a Jew in light of these idiots. For those who don't know, Buford Furrow attacked (shot up) a Jewish day-care center in Los Angeles back in 1999. Hell bent on attacking and possibly killing Jews, Furrow chose the center for one reason, and one reason only . . . the kids, the center's staff, and the guards were all unarmed. There's a lesson here.
- Brad
There was a discussion of this over on (IIRC) volokh.com a while back. The best explanation I saw was that if you're worried about a pogrom kicking off if you kill a few of your attackers, then the cost of whatever ravages a few individual attackers can manage is small potatoes compared to a sustained attack by a larger population on your whole community.
Whether or not that was reasonable then, it certainly isn't here and now. But, if your culture managed to do what was necessary to survive under the previous conditions, it very well could continue to guide your reactions, even if no longer particularly well suited.
Didn't someone just point out to a bunch of businesses there that if they do NOT put up such a sign there's liability limitations built into the law, but if they DO put up such a sign they could be sued by someone with a cc license who was injured on their property?
Anon @ 8:13 -
re: " if you're worried about a pogrom kicking off if you kill a few of your attackers, then the cost of whatever ravages a few individual attackers can manage is small potatoes compared to a sustained attack by a larger population on your whole community" - I'm not sure which side of the argument you are taking there. But consider Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's argument that had the KGB and NKVD goons been met in the hallways and on the staircases with fireplace pokers and table legs there would have been far fewer hauled off to the gulags. That and "it is far better to light one candle than to curse the darkness." The fear of what might happen to the group if the individual opposes should have been put to rest when the concentration camps were liberated. But apparently it still needs to be discussed - because "They" are not going to stop with just a few. "Better to die for a ram than for a sheep" needs to be more than just a folk saying.
stay safe.
It strikes me that too many American Jews think "Never Again" is given meaning by the same thing too many people think makes their cable TV work: magic fairy dust. Apparently it's going to take Jews being shoved into ovens here for them to wise up.
Self defense is the ultimate human right, a fact which apparently escapes these well meaning fools.
Every Jew should own a weapon and know how to use it. If that had happened in any number of places, the history of the Jewish people would not have the tragic history that they do.
As Jews, we have a DUTY to defend ourselves. That's one of the reasons I own and carry firearms. It's also one of the reasons I am a proud member of JPFO.
Well, there is a biblical reference to the 144,000 (12,000 from each tribe) being in the throne room of G_d when the Lord ushers in His kingdom. Some scholars believe that they are Messianic Jews (Jews who believe in Christ as the Messiah).
Skidmark may have it right...got to watch the timing on this one.
I read on someone's blog the story of a synagogue considering posting a "No Guns" sign. One wiser member of the congregation offered to make the sign. It read: "Attention all Nazis, Islmic Terrorists and Rednecks: Unarmed Jews Inside."
The congregation decided not to post the sign at all.
I can be armed in my apartment, but not outside it until I get to the sidewalk and then only if I don't go to the bus stop a few hundred feet from home. I also have to be unarmed in the park across the street where a guy was killed with a golf club. And yet, I am allowed to carry a golf club on the bus. WI is looking less rational by the day.
WV demanted Some of my fellow cheesehead are demanted.
Living here in Israel we do see a lot of weapons. Both handheld and of the larger variety.
The Tavor, Sandcat and Merkava are all great, recent, Israeli inventions.
Nowhere that I can think of in this country is a no-weapon zone. Maybe some of the pubs and clubs, but then again, that is probably more to stop young soldiers from harming themselves than anything else. And as a 'carrier' you just go to the next pub or club.
The safety on the streets here is amazing. I never think twice about walking home alone late at night.
Yes, I have repeatedly told my friends and family in the US that as Jews they have to carry - especially in synagogues - as that is where the next attack may well be.
But vot do I know already?
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