Looking for advice on Mass FID compliant rifles in 5.56. Any thoughts from you or your readers?
Background:
[Eldest daughter] will apply for her FID card this summer, and she wants a fun rifle to play with that she can posses without me. Would be nice if it is new. A Wally special won't do...sigh.
Maybe a Kel-Tec SU-16? Or?For starters, here's Massachusetts state law on what an FID card can purchase:
Firearms Identification (FID) CardsAnd what does MA consider high capacity?
The new FID card permits the purchase, possession and carrying of NON-LARGE CAPACITY RIFLES, SHOTGUNS and AMMUNITION ONLY. You must be at least 18 years old (or 15 - 17 years old with parental consent) to apply for an FID card. The fee for an FID card is $100.00 and it is valid for 6 years. New applicants must complete a Mass. approved firearms safety course or a BASIC HUNTER EDUCATION COURSE. A restricted FID card is available solely for the possession of mace or pepper spray. Applicants for the restricted FID are exempt from the education requirement.
Definition of Large Capacity Weapon
A weapon is large capacity if it is a semi-automatic handgun or rifle that is capable of accepting (or readily modifiable to accept) any detachable large capacity feeding device that holds more than ten rounds, OR if it is a shotgun capable of accepting more than five shotgun shells, OR if it is an assault weapon.
NOTE: A .22 caliber rifle with a fixed tubular magazine is not considered large capacity.Okay, with those definitions out of the way, it's pretty clear that AR-15 pattern rifles are out of the picture with a MA FID. It also appears that the Kel-Tec SU-16 would be out, since it can accept USGI AR-15 magazines, which are obviously > 10 round capacity. Now, it seems silly in that MA has an "Assault Weapons Ban", so that magazines > 10 rounds cannot be purchased new and must be "pre-ban" to begin with, but the law - stupid and unconstitutional as it is - is the law.
With that said, what are some options? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is one of the NEF Handi-rifles. Single shot, so none of the AWB nonsense applies; perfectly fine with an FID; can be scoped to take full advantage of the potential of the .223 Remington round; and reasonably priced. Single shot rifles are great for learning about smooth trigger operation, how to control one's breath for shots, adjusting optics, etc.
If greater capacity is desired, there are many bolt action rifles available in .223 Remington. The Remington 700 series, the new Ruger American, the CZ 527, etc. These rifles will have 5 or 10 round magazines available for the most part, so they won't run afoul of any assault bans or FID restraints. Bolt action rifles offer the same benefits as single-shots, in that they teach slower, aimed fire, but with less time between reloading needed.
Lastly, for a fun rifle, the Remington 7615 is something to think about. Built on the rock-solid Remington pump-action, it does take AR-15 magazines, but since it's not semi-automatic should be fine with an FID card. It's rugged, reliable, and with the pump action can be adapted to the shooter using adjustable stocks and pistol grips that are unavailable to the MA resident due to the AWB on semi-automatic rifles.
All of the above rifles fit the criteria presented; what other options might our intrepid Anonymous find for Eldest Daughter?
That is all.
18 comments:
I would suggest a Savage bolt action rifle in 223. I love mine.
There's also Reimngton 700s in 223.
If she wasn't insisting on 223, I would suggest a cowboy assault rifle (lever action rifle). They are easy to reload and come in some very good chamberings for self defense and hunting.
Okay, I'm having a Twilight Zome moment here. There's someplace where the gun laws make even less sense than New York's. (Our "large capacity feeding device" definition is a separate law, not part of the AWB. She'd be allowed to have an AR-15 or a Mini-14 as long as she had only 10 round mags for it.)
But for that locality, I think I'd recommend a bolt gun for the reasons you list. Savage makes some nice ones that aren't too pricey. If they're open to a caliber other than .223/5.56, there are other varmint rifles that might also be suitable.
I'll echo Tim and suggest a Savage boltie (Model 10 or 11). Accurate and economical.
I wouldn't recommend the 7615 - I have read far too many reports of those chewing the hell out of magazine feed lips.
Worth nothing, of course, is that .223 and 5.56 really aren't the same; my DPMS AR is chambered .223 and will blow primers in 5.56. Overpressure in a semi is bad, overpressure in a bolt can be even more badderer.
Just checked their site, and the Browning Lever Rifle (BLR) comes in .223 Remington.
There's always the SKS too. You have to respect a lady with a bayonet on her gun.
Re: ZerCool.
Learn something new every day, I've thought they were the same quite some time, looked it up. Interesting that 5.56NATO has more punch than the remington version(it can handle 20% more pressure, so it can be loaded hotter). But they're similar enough that weapons of either kind will chamber the other.
Mikael: There are rifles that can safely shoot both. Most Mini-14 models use what's called a Wylde chamber that can handle both. But the Mini-14 Target model can only use .223 Remington.
Tim makes a good point. A .30-30 levergun is a nice, versatile rifle. If it has a tubular magazine you have to be careful to use flat or rubber nosed bullets though. A pointy bullet resting against the primer of the next one in the tube could cause it to fire if it's bumped hard enough.
Another +1 for the SKS. 7.62x39 != .223, but they're close in both power, recoil, scope of use, and availability. Also it appears that the prices are really good right now on Yugos that are still in the surplus market. I suspect that price will go up with panics of a 2nd Obama term.
Also for a few bucks you can get enough clips to put a full case of 7.62x39 in ready-to-use servings.
If that's an interest for anybody, I'd act now as they haven't made a single one of them in over a generation, and a massive run on them might dry up the market making prices soar, and probably never fully recover.
They're fun rifles, and I personally wouldn't feel too under-gunned if my FAL was taken off the line and I was stuck with just my trusty SKS.
definitely concur with the SKS suggestion, although as an alternative, maybe an egyptian hakim/rasheed (can't remember which one is the 7.92 vs 7.62x39) if one can be had...
Hmmm....note post 17 here:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/17892-Storing-Someone-Else-s-Gun-from-another-state/page2
"Because of the proliferation of aftermarket LC mags for guns which never were produced with them, like the 1911, the interpretation is that the greater license (any LTC for a long arm; an LTC/A for a handgun) is not required unless and until the "large capacity" mag is also in the shooter's possession.
If you're shooting that 1911 with a snail drum mag (first produced for WWI air crews), you'd better have an "A." If you're putting banana mags in your 10/22, you'd better have an LTC.
And dealers are NOT necessarily the best source of information. Some have a clue - some don't."
While not a .223 / 5.56-poodle chambering . . . get a Mosin Nagant 91/30. Who cares if the recoil from the damned thing will cause a shoulder dislocation.
For about $250 one can get the rifle, some cleaning supplies and a 440 round spam can of ammo.
[Jewish Grandmother]
Such a deal
[/Jewish Grandmother]
- Brad
If she'll change her mind about the caliber, a good lever-action rifle in .357mag, .44mag, or .30-30 will do her well....
Does a California Style bullet button meet the needs of MA Madness?
I could definitely do a MA compliant AR. I'd grit my teeth, but it's for a good cause :)
Mini 14! I have one I was thinking of selling....
New Mossberg MVP! It accepts AR15 mags, but since its bolt action, it avoids the semi-auto ban.
They shoot incredibly well, and are very reasonably priced.
10 round magazines for the Ruger Mini 14 are available.
I second morlock's suggestion of the Egyptian Hakim rifle in 8mm Mauser (7.92mm x 57mm). The smaller Rashid carbine fires the 7.62mm x 39mm cartridge. The Swedish designed Hakim is based on the Swedish Army's AG42. I have a friend that owns a Hakim, and it is a great rifle for teaching large bore rifle skills on a budget.
Another suggestion (again owned by the same friend) is a Swiss K31:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K31
I really like the Remington pumps the get around stupid laws and work nicely. I would also suggest the rossi trifecta you can get it with a .223 22lr and 20gauge barrels for under $350. I have 2 and love them but mine are not .223 instead I got .308 on one and the other is .22lr and .410
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