So I'm reading this article in Boston online about what a clusterfuck it is to get a carry permit; and I was wondering if you could shed some light on the laws surrounding that.
I'm working up a post on why pre-emption and "may-issue" sucks so hard, but since I don't live in Mass. I'm not that familiar with your silly-assed gun laws.
"Silly-assed" is being charitable, Ahab...
Anyhoo, because
a) I'm always hard up for good blog fodder; and
b) I'm a lazy sumbitch at heart and couldn't bear the thought of not milking my keystrokes for all they're worth,
I'll reproduce my response here...
Let me start with a brief primer. There are three basic flavors of gun permits in MA:
1. FID: This allows you to purchase and own non-high capacity long arms (i.e. not AR-15s) and shotguns. This is "shall-issue", meaning that unless you are a Federally prohibited person, you get the permit.
2. LTC Class B: This is the non-high capacity permit. You can own high-capacity long arms but not high capacity handguns. It's especially useless given that MA extended the AWB (no new magazines > 10 rounds). This permit is "may-issue", left to the discretion of the local chief of police. It does NOT allow concealed carry.
3. LTC Class A: This is the high-capacity permit. This is the only permit which allows concealed carry. This permit is also "may issue" at the discretion of the local CoP, and has an extra twist: The chief may impose restrictions upon the carry requirement, such as work only, target and hunting only (i.e. no CCW), or unrestricted (technically, according to my license, it's "Restrictions: None"). A Class A LTC is the ONLY license that allows concealed carry.
There are some 350+ cities and towns in the Commonwealth of MA. I suspect there are about as many horror stories.
Bruce (No Looking Backwards) went through a ton of crap to get a restricted permit in a suburb of Boston. He waited > 100 days to get a restricted permit that allowed him to own and transport a gun, but not to carry it for self-defense.
Me, I've had a carry permit since the early 1990s. My dad's a retired MA state cop and my grandfather, whose passing spawned my getting the vast bulk of my gun collection, was a town cop for over 40 years. I grew up around guns, in a town that's pretty reasonable about permits. They will give out "unrestricted" licenses, although they give a restricted your first time around. I got an FID when I turned 15, so I had a non-carry permit for 8 years before I got my license to carry (I got my Class A when my grandfather passed away, as he gave me several handguns, for which the Class A/B was needed).
Even in a somewhat reasonable town I needed to take a Firearms Safety Course, complete with target requirement (side note: I scored the highest in the class; I LOVE the S&W Model 41). I needed two or three letters of recommendation from non-family members.
And this is on the lesser end of requirements - Bruce had to join a gun club and take his shooting test in Boston proper, at the same range the Boston PD uses. Other cities require a doctor's note. Some require the safety course and range qualifications be repeated for RENEWALS.
And other towns don't require anything other than the safety course for first time applicants and they'll give an unrestricted license.
It's completely capricious and arbitrary depending on the whim and demeanor of the chief of police. Some are reasonable. Some are imperialistic pricks.
There was even one town (Carver, MA) where the chief of police declared that she was not going to issue *ANY* permits - this was in the wake of the Columbine shootings - INCLUDING renewals (she was basically run out of town on a rail the next election...)
Oh, and did I mention that you can't own as much as a single ammunition component (like brass casings) without a permit? In other words, you lose your permit, you lose your guns. Period. So, in the town of Carver, any gun owner whose permit expired had to sell all their guns, move, or become a felon. All because the chief got a hair up her @$$ about firearms.
Check out Northeastshooters forum - there's a link on my blog (see: Derek under "Bloggers I've Met"). Lots and lots of good quality info.
Hope this helps!
So, in a nutshell, there's how MA gun permits shake out. Logic and reason play no part; luck, geography, and connections weigh heavily...
That is all.
UPDATE: T-Bolt asks about cost and renewal info. Good question. Cost for all permits is $100, although some cities and towns add as much as $40 - illegally, mind you, although there's no penalty for those that do. Permits expire on your birthday and expire on the 5th birthday after renewal. What some towns (like mine) do is overlap +1 week so that you get ~ 6 years - so if your permit expires on 01/01/2010, your town renews on 01/08/10 so that your next permit needs to be renewed on 01/01/2016.
It's confusing, but welcome to MA. Leave the Constitution at the state line.
15 comments:
Jay,
Maybe a follow-up post tomorrow about the Chapter 140 laws for handguns as well as the 940 consumer protection regulations. My $0.02.
You don't happen to own stock in Lisinopril, do ya?
;)
Jay
You forgot the restricted FID for all those who want assault pepper spray and such. . . and believe it works so they don't need a gun. . .
Another point you may want to add is the cost. . . even to renew they want the $100 so that keeps folks from being able to afford it. For the first time guy that has to pay for a class too. . . priced right out of his rights. . .
Thanks God my town is all but shall issue. We needed the letters and class first time through after that they look at your record and if it is clean they renew end of story.
Jay, don't forget the infamous MA "green card" or "License to Possess a Machine Gun". Don't expect the CLEO to actually issue this, but it does exist.
Mine was number 401, I am not sure if that is state-wide and for all time, but it wouldn't surprise me.
it is sad how far the great state that was so instrumental in fighting for freedom has fallen...
why doesnt someone sue the state for infringing on their constitutional rights?
How much does it COST to get each of those permits? How soon before you have to renew it and how much $$$ then? Do you need a permit for each gun or is it just for the shooter?
jd,
I was only covering gun permits, hence why I didn't mention the Pepper Spray-limited FID.
Cost is a good idea (especially considering Bolt's question). Will add as update.
andrew,
I left out MG permits because those are pretty specialized. Hell, it's amazing enough that MA even allows 'em...
chris,
Problem is, the vast majority of the state voted for the dingleberries who write these laws, so who's gonna sue?
T-bolt,
Good question. I'll add an update with fee and renewal info.
Wow. I have heard that some MA gun rights group complained to the state AG, and that she(?) has addressed the issue with those cities that charge more than the state mandated $100.00.
Still, I have to say, I am glad I live in a shall issue state. But I do wish ours was cheaper, at least for renewal. Here in Michigan, we pay $105.00 for a five year permit.
For your first one, you have to show proof that you passed a training course. For renewal, you simply sign a statement saying you reviewed Michigan's firearms laws, and such. And that's it.
Interesting - I was stationed at Fort Devens back in '73 (I think) when the FID appeared, and if memory serves, it cost $5 and had no expiration. I'll have to dig thru my "Army box" and see if I still have it somewhere.
hartley,
They eliminated the "lifetime" FID back in 1998 when they "revamped" the MA gun laws. This was where Mitt Romney claims to be a friend to gun owners because he got them to extend the permit from 4 to 6 years and get it drivers license-sized.
Oh, and the fees more than doubled, and the lifetime FID was eliminated, the Approved Firearms Roster initiated, and...
Yeah, I'm all choked up that Rino Romney didn't get the nod.
Not.
{end digression)
There's a LOT of people in MA who are felons and don't even realize it because of that FID deal...
Lord bless but I love living in Texas.
Fingerprints, photos, background check, 1 class with shooting requirement and $140. That's it.
And for veterans like me, the CHL cost is reduced to $70
jay, how about a suit claiming that the fees involved in being able to exercise are comparable to the poll tax that was ruled unconstitutional many years ago...
any citizen of the state that had to pay those fees would be someone that could show harm from the laws and thus have standing to bring the case up... the harm would be financial, but it is still harm
Jay
I mention the pepper spray license because many folks don't realize our state is so messed up that you need a permit even for spray, never mind a gun that may actually do something. Great post.
Chris,
At the beginning of May was a state house budget vote taken on an amendment aimed at reducing license fees, making them more aligned with neighboring New England state. The amendment failed to pass and the license fee stands at $100.
I think this is my favorite comment about Mass. gun laws:
"Class A permits are nearly extinct in Massachusetts. To get one, you need a signed letter from the President stating that you're attacked by ninjas with chainsaws on an hourly basis."
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