Sometimes it's tough being the grown-up. Sometimes you need to make hard, unpopular decisions. And sometimes you have to deal with life's unpleasantries.
Like finding out that one of your children is a bully. And a liar.
We got the call from the vice principal at the kids' school yesterday. One of our dear children was in his office, sent there by the teacher for hitting another child, lying about the cause, and refusing to obey the teacher. Said child has been having a tough time, recently, and we were asked about our method of discipline at home (side note: It's a damn good thing I didn't take that call, because IMHO the only answer to that is "NUNYA").
Yes, BabyGirl G has been beating up other kids in school. Mostly boys. Actually, exclusively boys. She has a very low tolerance for teasing, apparently, and rather than tell the offending child to stop, or telling the teacher, or simply walking away, she starts swinging.
And the worst part is, she lies about it afterward. That's what we're having the most trouble with - getting her to understand that telling the truth is important. We're up a brick wall, because she will lie even under circumstances where we absolutely know the truth and can immediately correct her (like she'll say "Daddy said 'X'!" even if I'm standing right there and she damn well knows I didn't say 'X').
Obviously, I blame the Democrats.*
No one ever said this would be easy... In fact, I'm reminded of Acidman's admonition that "If it were easy, any asshole could do it"... Just gotta take it one day at a time, and remember to provide as much positive reinforcement as punishment. It's just hard, though, when they look you in the face and lie to you. You know, "I did not have, pugilistic relations with that kindergartener"...
That is all.
*That's humor, for the humor impaired. I tend to use inappropriate humor to mask feelings of inadequacy and/or terror.
13 comments:
I'm having the same "veracity deficiency issue" with Smallest.... and she is not even good at it.... gotta get that fixed before she improves those skills...
Hi Jay.
As you know I have a grown daughter. She too had some issues with truth telling. I think it's fairly common around 6-8 years-old, at least with girls. All I could do with her was consistently explain why truth telling is so important (boy who cried wolf etc) and punish her consistently and severely every time she lied. -Worked for us.
As for the hitting for teasing thing, I dunno. My daughter had a spastic bladder which we didn't get diagnosed for a couple of years and wet her pants at times. She was teased mercilessly and the teachers didn't do a damn thing.
So I taught her how hit the boys in the nose and make them cry. She stopped getting teased.
A teacher complained about it, and I told her if they wouldn't stop it, then my girl would stop it. Don't blame her for doing what kids have done from time immemorial.
Bullying is not fighting. It's beating up on kids who can't defend themselves. Your daughter, if she's reacting to kids teasing her, is not being a bully, she's reacting naturally. If anything it sounds like she's a victim of a bully,not a bully herself.
The lying though, IMO, needs spankings. Nothing brings home a lesson to a small child like a moderate amount of pain.
> Mostly boys. Actually, exclusively boys.
^^^^^^^^^
I wonder if this was how Hurricane Amy got her start.
I agree with Bill - Lying of any sort needs to draw down the wrath of an angry Daddy, complete with confinement (eg, room, no toys, no TV) and a sore bum. I have run into this (lies) on rare few occasions (thank God), and I ramped up further and faster than for any other offense.
If a child grows up learning that there's nothing wrong with mendacity, the child will grow up to be untrustable. :(
"If a child grows up learning that there's nothing wrong with mendacity, the child will grow up to be untrustable. :("
A left-winger, in other words...
First, I want to say I agree with Bill that if she's hitting people for teasing her, then she's not a bully. She's just reacting to it in a (possibly) poor way. You need to see if you can find out from her how long this teasing has been going on, and whether she went to her teacher about it.
That said, I am dealing with the exact same issue with Bobbie. I don't know how old your daughter is, but Bobbie's six. I'll take some comfort in Bill's notion that it's a common 6-8 thing, so there's some hope of it being a self-correcting issue. Because I haven't come across a damn thing yet that will stop her from lying about the most meaningless of things. (Like your daughter, mine'll whip out something she knows she'll get caught for.)
If it makes you feel any better, it makes me feel a little better my kid's not the only one. ;-)
Spanking worked on both mine for lying... Self defense (Karate) worked on the teasers!
jimbob,
"veracity deficiency issue". I like that.
Bill,
Good point on her not being a bully, per se. I agree, and retract that part. It's more that she's too quick to resort to fisticuffs, not that she's picking on kids.
That word I was using. I do not think it means what I thought it meant...
sci-fi,
We're working on it. There is a plan in place - I offered her a "clean slate" by which she could start earning back our trust. Bottom line is, she's going to be punished - severely - for lying going forward (in fact, right now there are zero toys in her room!). If she can stay on the straight-and-narrow, she'll be in the clear...
bobg,
You caught my little hints. Heh.
Sabra,
BabyGirl G. is 5½. So she's a little early, but not by much.
One of the reasons I posted this story, actually, is that I was wondering if this was something common to the age.
It appears so...
old nfo,
She's done karate in the past, didn't like it.
We're going to give her another shot in a year or so, figuring that she'll be old enough to be in the same class as her brother (they have "open" classes where they go over the basics and all belts can attend).
Everyone thinks everyone else's child is perfect, and certainly the stories OUR parents told led us to believe they were the same, we were just the unruly ones.
One day some friends of my parents from youth were at the door when we all got home from school. Mom had just run and errand and wasn't back yet. (we were about junior high aged).
We heard some stories. Not the ones Dad and Mom told.
heh.
Dad got home and we were "so. . Dad. . tell us about the time you and Mom went to the movies and didn't get home til 4 a.m. SURE. . she fell asleep. . " (chuckle).
"And what about the time you snuck the liquor into the high school picnic and then ran your Dad's model A into the ditch?".
Oh yes. . we had some fun.
The best you can do is just set by example. . and let her know there are consequences to actions that don't speak the truth.
Everyone has the lying problem. Once a kid lies his/her way outta trouble, they know they've found a gold mine. Plus, everyone has a different solution. With my kids, though, they've been told from the moment that they could comprehend that a lie gets more punishment than the actual wrong-doing. So, for instance, if it's a case of someone sneaking cookies out of the cookie jar, I tell them "I'm going to find out who did it and they're going to be punished. If you lie, the punishment is going to be at least double. So, if you were going to get a spanking & it would be one or two swats, we're talking 5 or 6 swats if you lie". That one has a >95% success rate because they usually 'fess up.
A few caveats to that one: you gotta know who is lying. Otherwise (you can only fool kids for so long) they'll call your bluff. Two, and this one is pretty important, I lavish them with praise for telling me the truth if they do it rather quickly. So, for the example above, if one kid stepped forward after my explanation of the punishment & confessed, I generally sit him/her (it's usually her) down and explain that while I'm disappointed (never angry, folks....never, always say "disappointed") that she broke a rule in stealing the cookies, I'm very proud that she stepped forward and told the truth. Then, I usually curb the punishment GREATLY as a reward for telling the truth; so it'd go from a spanking to some sort of grounding or the like, depending on the 'crime'.
Lastly, and my daughter has almost finally had the proverbial light-bulb go off for this one, I let the habitual liar know that if their word is meaningless when it comes time to decide if they did something wrong, then it's worthless any other time. So, if my daughter has been caught lying a few times in the last week & she comes to me claiming that her brother called her a name - which he denies - then my immediate response is "why should I believe you over him? You've lied to me three times this week. I have no reason to believe you. So, you guys go about your business and I hope YOU learned something about telling the truth." That one took a few months, but she's just about turned it around and her instances of lying have gone to almost nil.
She's really been impressive, of late, actually. Smart girl, she knows Christmas is just around the corner & a quick about-face on the behavior = more presents.
Plus, she's 11 and asked to sleep with me last night. I know that the days of such inclinations are dwindling, so I'm enjoying every second...right now, she's still my lil' girl and I'm gonna hug & hold her as tight as I can.
Left this out at the end: like the song I linked you said, Jay, "it won't be like this for long".
Dammit.
I guess I'm mean .. or meanER than y'all are.
First time she lied to my face I'd promise to get her a puppy or something, take her to the pound and then when she has to go home empty handed I'd say "oh, I lied now you know how it feels".
Christmas is coming .. some empty boxes under the tree might turn the trick if she's young enough.
My mom and dad used soap and a belt. I learned my lessons FAST. (I'm not recommending it.. just saying it worked.)
My kid lies about anything to do with the potty, as smoothly and reflexively as a lifetime conman.
At one point, I peeked into the bathroom and saw him sitting on the toilet, his pants and underwear around his ankles.
Are you pooping? I asked him. No. he said. I'm just sitting here. 2 minutes later he announced that he pooped.
Hmm...
Okay, I am mixed on this. Definitely tell the truth, but I am inclined she should keep swinging.
When criticized, just have her declare to the principal after he asks "why did you do this"...
"Well Sir, since your teachers are incapable of keeping the other students from teasing children. It fell upon me to take action."
I absolutely agree with Bill's comment here "Bullying is not fighting. It's beating up on kids who can't defend themselves. Your daughter, if she's reacting to kids teasing her, is not being a bully, she's reacting naturally."
As for fighting never solving anything. If that was the case, there'd be no fights. Truth is, fighting can solve a lot. I was teased and harassed from years. In 9th grade I fought back. Amazing, that one fight solved more than anything else ever did.
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