Monday, October 12, 2009

CCW Conundrum

Reader PISSED (and yes, he's a gun owner in MA, so the moniker is well-deserved), writes in with the following questions:
Good morning Jay,

Thanks for taking your time to read this : )

I fairly new to concealed carry and gun ownership in MA.

I appreciate your blog and also have followed some of the links to others like Bruce's.

My question if you dont mind is, who do you recommend as a good instructor for
CC?

Also what would you recommend for a good gun to carry in an ankle holster?

I have purchased from Four Seasons Firearms in the past.

I live on the north shore as well.

regards, PISSED


Naturally, I had to respond (note: Saying good things about my humble poo flinging scribblings is a great way to get a response):
Thanks for reading MArooned, and thanks for your questions. As always, I'd like to use this as a post, as I think others may have good answers to your questions (I typically will leave off last names; if you're really concerned you can simply be "a reader").

As for who to go to for CCW training, really, in MA, there's no better place to go than GOAL (Gun Owner's Action League - you *are* a member, right?). GOAL offers numerous classes pertaining to MA gun laws; the best course for what you're looking for is the "Art of Concealed Carry" class. It's taught by Jon Green and Darius Arbabi, two very knowledgeable and personable gentlemen who are true assets to 2A community here in MA. There are some more specialized courses available such as the Secrets of the Concealed Snub Revolver course offered by Michael de
Bethencourt.


As to your second question, I happen to have two of the guns I'd recommend, and can and have carried one of them in an ankle holster for significant periods of time. While you can find ankle holsters for guns up to the subcompact Glocks and S&W M&Ps, I wouldn't recommend it due to the weight and bulk. I've carried my S&W AirLite model 360PD in an ankle holster, and at 13.9 ounces loaded it's really the heaviest I'd want to carry in an ankle holster. The AirWeight Model 637 would also be a good choice, only a few ounces heavier. I'd recommend getting a revolver with an exposed hammer and an ankle holster with a retention strap for security.

Since you're in MA, the other options are harder to come by - the Kel-Tec P3AT or the Ruger LCP. Both are lighter than the S&W J-frame and more compact, so they're both less obtrusive in the holster and lighter at the end of your leg... However, since the powers-that-be have determined them to not be safe enough for us peons, they're rather hard to find and will come at a premium (expect to pay $400 - $500 for a P3AT, which retails for under $300 new...)

As for ankle carry in general, a lot of folks don't care for it, and with valid reason. It's limiting to small, less-powerful guns that take practice to shoot well; it's much less accessible than IWB carry; it's more prone to accidental dislodging of the firearm under physical activity. The pluses are that it is pretty deep cover and that, most importantly, it allows you to obey the first rule of gunfighting: Have a gun. It's also good for carrying a back-up gun if you choose to do so.

The one thing I'd mention is that the guns I've suggested for ankle carry are also well-suited for pocket carry. I carry both the S&W 360 and the P3AT in DeSantis Nemesis holsters and find it to be a superior method of carrying IMHO. I've posted the methods of carry in this post. Carrying in your pocket allows for a much faster draw than from an ankle holster (did a video on drawing from the pocket here).

Thanks for writing, and I'll offer that if you would like to try either a S&W J-frame or a P3AT, give a holler and we'll figure something out.

Best regards,

Jay G.
MArooned



Anyone got any better suggestions for either training (local to the Northeast, or around the country) or a gun for ankle-carry?

That is all.

12 comments:

ASM826 said...

I would suggest something other than ankle carry. There are a couple of problems with an ankle holster. One is the weight swinging with you when you walk. Another is access when you need it. Take a club timer, and at the range, draw from an ankle holster and make an aimed shot. 4 seconds? 5? Not an easy draw.

And that's a controlled practice situation. If you have a bad guy crowding you, and it has gone so far south that you want to draw, are you even going to get to the holster before he's beating you down while you're kneeling?

I can draw from retention and concealment, with a strong side holster, in a lot less time, and not be as vulnerable as I am on my knee reaching for an ankle gun.

The type of guns you are recommending are as easy to pocket carry as they are to ankle carry. Why not a pocket holster and a 642? Plan your trouser selection and that pocket gun just disappears. Even an SP-101 can be carried this way, although I consider it a little too big to be really as comfortable as an Airweight.

NMM1AFan said...

Is Instructional Shooting in Lowell still in business?

I took the class with them back when I still lived in MA.

NMM1AFan said...

Actually, scratch that. I would not recommend IS. Thinking about it, I remembered I didn't care for their safety attitude.

Sorry 'bout that.

zeeke42 said...

I highly recommend NEShooters: http://www.neshooters.com/

Their own classes are a great value, and they bring in world class traveling trainers on a regular basis. Most of their classes are in Westford, MA or Pelham, NH.

C Kelsey said...

@ NMM1AFan,

Yes Instructional Shooting in Lowell is still operating. I did their required safety class prior to getting my Class A. Good group of people. I've taken advantage of the store and have a Para 1911 LDA that should be here any day.

In regards to the ankle holster: My expertise is in human capabilities. Every pound carried on the ankle requires up to 7 times the energy it requires to carry on the hip or back. It doesn't sound like much, but when things go wrong and you're already burning lots of energy just from the adrenalin high it might be an issue depending on fitness. Does that mean you shouldn't do it? Nah, do what works for you. Just be absolutely certain to make it as light as you can stand.

Bruce said...

My LCP is a breeze to carry in either the Galco wrap-around ankle rig or my cheap Uncle Mike's pocket holster.

But, yeah, forget about any kind of quick draw. Or, slow non-fumbly-looking draw, for that matter.

But, as a back up piece, it's the shiznits.

Anonymous said...

Taurus 85 ultralight snubbie in either .38 +p or .357 mag in a pocket holster. Toss a couple of speedloaders in the mix for a decent amount of ammo on tap.
Weighs about the same as a S&W airweight for about half the price.

Bond arms derringer in .45 long colt or a NAA derringer revolver in .22 mag for backup.

Don't know if any of the above are legal in Mass, though.

PISSED said...

Thanks to Jay and the others for all your input. Looks like I've gotta lot of homework to do. : )

Anonymous said...

Hi,

Curious if anyone has used the Walther PPK or PPK/S for CCW?

My primary defense gun (686+) needed to go out to S&W for a fix this past weekend and I had been meaning to get a small carry gun. Choices available at my local shop (on the South Coast in MA) were the S&W snubbies (mentioned above) and the Walthers. I liked the snubbies for pocket carry but ended up getting the PPK as it was narrower and seemed more practical for IWB carry.

After wearing it around a bit over the weekend, I will say the weight is a bit of a concern. However I think this may be mitigated by a better holster. I picked up a nylon "elite survival" brand IWB at the shop but think I should be looking for a cross-bread super tuck or something like that...

All the being said, I'm still very open to moving to another gun if it aids me in CCW.

Any thoughts much appreciated!

- Chuck

Jay G said...

Chuck,

If you're looking for a thin, light gun for IWB carry, I've been hearing really good things about the Walther PPS.

It's currently available in MA (!!!) in 9mm variant only; I can only assume the .40 S&W version should follow shortly.

Rick R. said...

Kahr pistols are small (PP size or smaller), reliable, and more powerful (9mm or .40S&W, or you can go Uptown into the .45ACP) than the .380.

However, the keltecs or a J-frame snubbie are good choices.

I would recommend that you stay away from hammerless or concealed hammer revolvers if you insist on ankle carry -- you really want a hammer to loop the retention strap over so your gun doesn't end up playing hockey puck in the street one day.

zeeke42 said...

The PPK is a cool gun, but I think time and technology have passed it by. You can get more power in a smaller, lighter, and more shootable package.

I personally have decided that I will only carry guns that go bang when the trigger is pulled with no other controls involved. I used to make an exception for Browning pattern guns (1911 and GP35), but I don't do that anymore. I'd absolutely never mix frame mounted safeties where down is fire and slide mounted safeties where down is safe.

I think revolvers and light DAO (ie Glock, M&P, Kahr, Kel-Tec, etc) autos are the way to go for carry. YMMV.