So, I think I've decided on what to get for Buy A Gun Day. It's time to pick up utilitarian .22LR semi-automatic pistol. I've got a Smith & Wesson model 422 with a red dot sight which is a fun little gun, light and easy to handle, but it's finicky and fickle and isn't the greatest for teaching a new shooter. I want something rock-solid reliable, something that will eat bulk .22LR without complaining and offer moderate accuracy to boot. The gun has to MA compliant (or otherwise sold without the MA markup common to "off-list" firearms), has to have magazines that are easy to acquire without selling a kidney, and has to be reliable with bulk ammo. That's pretty much my entire list of requirements.
With that said, here are the choices in no particular order save how they popped into my pointy little head:
1. Smith & Wesson model 22A. Pros are the low cost (I think they're going new for about $275), the full Weaver rail, and the simple take-down. Cons are spotty accuracy (they don't want to build it too good or it impinges on the model 41) and expensive magazines (although, really, all of the guns on this list suffer from that).
2. Ruger 22/45. Ruger bills the 22/45 as a sort of 1911 trainer, pointing out the similar grip angle and location of controls. It's a no-frills pistol with a very reasonable price and simple operation, just the right thing for a new shooter. Everyone seems to like their 22/45, with praise for its simplicity but curses for the difficult take-down.
3. Walther P22. I fired TOTWTYTR's P22 with the 5" barrel at the AD Pre-Spring shoot, and it was handling the copper-plated Federal bulk .22LR just fine. Accuracy was darn good (I was hitting the 6" steel plates at 25 yards about 75% of the time even rapid-fire), and reliability was good as well. Problems are that not everyone has similarly good experience with Walther's rimfire pistol as well as the size - this is a really small gun.
4. SigSauer Mosquito. Lissa's Siquito was a hoot to shoot, quite accurate in single-fire mode (and the loooooongest double action trigger I think I've ever shot). It was a bit finicky, preferring higher velocity .22LR ammo, but with the right diet it fed and fired everything we put into it. Much like the P22, though, there have been a few horror stories of folks that got, well, less-than-perfect models that required multiple trips to Exeter to smooth out.
5. Ruger Mark III Hunter. This is the most expensive rimfire on the list, topping $400 in full fluted barrel guise. I love the stainless finish, the adjustable rear sight and fiber optic front, and the 7" bull barrel which gives the Hunter near race-gun accuracy. Cons are the infamously difficult to disassemble Mark series and the price - certainly it's worth the money, but when I can pick up four out of five of these guns new for $100 less than a used Mark III, well, it's hard to justify extra money for shiny...
So there's my gunnie conundrum (or gunundrum as I like to call it). While I'd love to look at the Browning Buckmark, or a Beretta Neos, or an EAA Witness, those guns are not safe enough to sell in MA (sarcasm) and therefore are essentially off the list. While a .22LR conversion kit for the Glock 30, the Colt Gold Cup, or the SigSauer P226 is also an option, everything I've read about the kits is that they take "premium" .22LR ammo (defined as costing more than the copper-plated Federal bulk .22LR from Wallyworld).
All the above guns are available in MA; all will function on bulk ammo (save the Sig which runs smoother on higher velocity ammo); all are available for around $300 (save the Mark III Hunter). I don't have a particular favorite among the group, which makes it even harder to choose one. Either of the Rugers would be nice because I don't have any Ruger semi-autos; the Sig would fit in with the P226; the Walther matches the SW99; the 22A is very inexpensive; and the Mark III Hunter is just plain gorgeous.
Which .22LR semi-auto would you choose, and why?
That is all.
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30 comments:
I've got the MkIII 22/45, slab-side 4.5" barrel with fixed three-dot sights. Works great on bulk ammo. I will NOT call it a trainer for the 1911 in anything but grip angle. The controls are in similar places but don't feel the same at all. It's fine for practicing sight acquisition and just plinking around, but I wouldn't ask much more.
If I was buying another .22 auto now, it'd likely be the least expensive 22/45 I could find, and then I'd put a Tactical Solutions Pac-Lite upper on it.
If that's not possible, a MkIII Hunter or a Walter P22 would be high on the list. I've been eyeing the P22 anyways and want to try one before plunking down $300 on one.
I've bought a couple of the p22 on whim of the better half's. took them out to the range and fell in love. Had to go back and buy her a black one so I could keep the OD green ones. (One 3.4 and one 5.25).
I'm voting for the MKIII 22/45. I've got the 5.5" bull barrel model, and it's dead nuts accurate and reliable. It's run winchester, federal, and remington bulk ammo without a single misfire. The take down is a bit more difficult then normal, but it gets easier with time and practice. Get yourself a non-marring hammer from Home Depot, and a takedown tool from Midway and things go much easier. While you're shopping at Midway, be sure to order a $5 Volquartsen hammer bushing for a Mark II, swapping that little part for the Mk III bushing allows you to remove the magazine disconnect. That makes takedown a lot easier, and as a bonus the mags eject much nicer. That upper ZerCool mentioned sure looks sweet, but it's more then I paid for the whole gun. If I were to do it again, the only things I might do different is go with the stainless over blued, and get the new removable grip panel model so you can go with grips that are more like the 1911's.
I have the Mark III Competition / Target, with cocobolo wood grips and a 7 inch slab, bull barrel. It's the higher end of the Mark III series.
I wouldn't trade this gun for anything. It shoots everything from Remington Thunderbolts to match ammo. Never had a jam. Had to adjust the sights one click to the right, and one click north, and now its dead on.
Recoil is non-existant, I've shot paint ball guns with more muzzle rise. I'll email a pic tonight when I'm back from the office, you'll be sold on one.
If you're hung up on the cleaning aspect, the dealer told me this: shoot 1000 rounds before you clean it. It will loosen it up. Also there are you tube videos of a guy taking one down and reassembling it in under 3 minutes...
I snagged a Browning Buckmark years ago, when I needed to answer this question -- primarily because it fit my wife's hand, which neither the Ruger nor the Smith autos did.
I haven't regretted the decision. Tactical Solutions also makes barrels for the Buckmark -- and since they're not the serialized part unlike for the Ruger -- it's a little easier to set a gun up for two different top ends...
(although, really, all of the guns on this list suffer from that)
Another plus in the Ruger column! It comes with two, and new mags are the cheapest of any on your list. You can also get the totally awesome mag loader for the Ruger. :)
If I didn't have my Buckmark (damn, but you're missing out there), I'd be for buying the Smith. Rugers don't feel right to me and are a nightmare to strip, and I've heard too many horror stories about the Sig and Walther.
How to field strip a 22/45 Mk III. Get rid of the mag disconnect and it's even easier. No, it's not as easy as many others, but then it's also not as fussy about being clean as others. Like someone else said, I wouldn't even think about cleaning it before 1000rnds unless the trigger started feeling gritty.
Out of your list, I'd have to vote for one of the Rugers. Yeah, take down is a PITA, but once you've done it a few times, you get used to it. And the accuracy is the best you're going to get in that price range. You'll only do better on accuracy by moving up to the $1000-and-up range.
I'm not sure why marko feels the necessity to buy a $13 paperclip, as that's what I use to open the takedown latch, but if you can really swap in the hammer bushing and kill the mag disconnect, I'd vote for the Mark III - I had one and only sold it because A) it was a PITA to strip to clean and B) the mags aren't drop-free and I wanted it for pin shoots (candle-pin, that is).
That said, you COULD do what I did - look for a good used Mark II. I love mine and don't feel undergunned at all with it. Accurate, reliable and I don't have to fart around with that stupid dance with putting the mag in, taking it out, shaking it all about that has to be done to clean a Mark III.
I've got a Ruger MkII in stainless with the bull barrel.
I've heard the complaints about disassembly for years... And don't get it.
Yeah, I had to read the manual the first time I took it apart. No big deal after that. Really, it isn't that difficult. Yes, Ruger took a different approach that many other .22 semi-autos. I do like the fact that when taking this gun apart, I really get a feel for how everything works together in the design, something other designs seem to hide in their hardware.
I've got a MKIII, a MKI and a S&W 22A. I like the rugers but the Smith is just as accurate (1" at 25 yards) and cleaning it is a LOT easier. Seriously the 22A is a good deal, it feeds everything I throw in it and is more accurate than I!
Tim
I bought my wife a P22 for Mother's Day last year. She loves it. Everyone we have taken shooting with it loves it. It eats up any ammo that we have (including some 20 year old bulk Remington I found in an old gun case) whether jacketed or solid lead, hollow point or ball. The 5.25" barrel I have is already threaded for a supressor (maybe I'll get that for this Mother's Day!).
Ross, that's me with the takedown tool not Marko, but thanks for the compliment! :) A paperclip works fine for the mainspring latch, but it's also a non-marring punch with a concave end for the bolt stop pin and has a tool under that cap for replacing the extractor. I'm also pretty sure I paid less then $10 for mine. You can use an AR15 takedown punch for the bolt stop pin if you have one. I don't, and this was about the same price or less then the AR tool. It's not something you NEED, but it does make it easier getting the mainspring/bolt stop out.
Jay, the Colt Woodsman (all models and years) is on the C&R list. Make sure you get a newer model as the series one magazines are insanely priced and from what I can see, no one makes repro mags.
I've got a S&W 22A, it's OK, but the rail covers the top of the slide, so you can't really slingshot it, you have to pinch the rear of the slide like a motherfucker to get enough grip to cock it.
I wanted something at a reasonable price, with a "centerfire" grip angle, and a big enough grip that angle mattered. Of what was available locally, that left the .22/45.
Pain in the ass to strip, but not necessary all that often. Mine doesn't like Bulk federal with about 5% misfires but is fine with anything else I've tried. Next time I actually clean mine properly, I'm going to do a Xavier blast shield:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/11/ruger-mkii-blast-shield.html
...and the Ultimate cliploader that Mopar mentions is good enough that I would consider it as a major factor if I were buying a new .22. If you have magazines it can load, get one.
We've got a MkII and P22. There is no comparison. The MKII beats the P22 hands down. The P22 is extremely picky on ammo, must be absolutely clean (in that it's not good for any kind of match) and we've never been able to get ours consistently accurate. The MkII eats anything we put in it, is super accurate and just plain fun to shoot. It's only drawback is it's heavy and, thus, a bit difficult for Bugaboo to hold at arm's length of a Steel Challenge stage (shoot same stage 5 times). But, she's getting there.
I've shot a 22A and was not impressed. It was adequate but the Ruger just fits all my preferences in everyway. We are in the market for another one since we are all shooting it in the Steel Challenge matches.
My P22 was finicky on ammo - only wanted to eat the high - velocity stuff - until I hit about 2000 through the pipe or so. Once that spring is broken in, it eats anything now. As someone who has a SW99c and two P99's in the safe with it, the little brother is nice to have to take out and have familiar controls as its bigger siblings.
On the other hand, you're not going to get the accuracy of a Ruger, even with the 5" barrel. That said, I'd still pick the P22 - it's just familiar fun.
I'll second (third? fourth?) the recommendations for a Ruger. Either the Mk III or the 22/45 are good choices, so get whichever one you're is more comfortable in your hand - the only real difference is the grip angle. It's a solid, reliable, and dead on accurate design that has endured with very little change for 61 years (since 1949), and seems to eat pretty much any ammo with no problems.
I have a Mk III Target (5.5" bull barrel). It's dead on accurate and very reliable - just like my dad's Ruger Standard that I grew up on. It came pre-tapped for a rail (which was included) for mounting optics if you want. The sights are easily adjustable and easily replaceable with whatever you want (fiberoptic front, etc.).
You just can't go wrong with the Ruger.
I am voting for the ruger - any ruger. The takedown thing is much ado about nothing. Point it down, pull the trigger and shake on disassembly & reassembly. Look at it as you do it and you'll see you need the hammer forward and the hammer strut hanging freely to the rear.
I own 3 ruger Mk2s (I prefer the euro mag release vs the american style) and would happily own more.
I really love my P22 but it has problems with bulk. If you are looking for malfunction practice, bulk away. Otherwise shoot CCI and it will never give you any problems.
I own the Ruger 22/45. I don't know if they are available in MA or anywhere yet, but I guess Ruger finaly started putting 1911 grip bushings in from the factory so you don't have to mod it to put real grips on it.
I can strip and re-assemble my 22/45 in under 15 seconds. Most of that is due to my ripping out the mag disconnect which I'm guessing you can't do legally.
With the disconnect in it might take 30 seconds. Once you understand how the gun operates it is dead simple.
I personally think people who have problems stripping it either have a hammer strut that's binding, or they don't drop the hammer before removing/re-installing the mainspring housing.
Here's a good video showing how to strip and reassemble the 22/45 MkIII.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkPN87hRgbE
In all honesty it will not go that easy the first few times, and he glosses over most of the problem points people have. However, after you get the hang of it, it really is that easy.
I own the Sig Skeeter. For the first 250 rounds or so, it refused to reliably feed anything but CCI Mini Mags.
Now, with the round count well over 1000, it'll digest pretty much any plated ammo, but if you shoot more than a couple hundred rounds of cheap bulk plated stuff, it'll start having feed issues.
I bought it because it's a full-sized frame, but the trigger sucks.Found it to be of middling accuracy as well, primarily because of that trigger.
Buy the P22 with the interchangeable barrels, and give it time to break in. you saw how TOTWTYTR's shot. It's a sweet little gun.
Just to expand on my comments about the Mark III and Mark II a little.
Mark II owners, until you actually try to fieldstrip a Mark III, you have NO idea how Ruger's lawyers buggered up a wonderful design. Download the Mark III manual and read the procedure sometime. (one thing, BTW, that I give Ruger full marks for: all their manuals can be downloaded from their website! Awesome!) The difference between the two is horrifying. The Mark II and the Mark I are easy compared to the III.
Now, that said, my Mark III was a tack driver, and I'll be shooting it tonight as I'm visiting it's current owner. So if you're not planning to put a bunch of rounds through it, or if your idea of cleaning is to just open the bolt, blast it with GunScrubber and dry it, then the Mark III is a great choice.
Me, I shoot it a lot and want to clean it afterwards. I prefer the simplicity of a Mark II, and do NOT need to have a magazine disconnect or a loaded chamber indicator. I have one of those in my brain - it tells me that the damned chamber is always loaded unless I'm looking right at it and see that it's empty.
I have the Mosquito and the Ruger Mark III.
Only reason to have the Mosquito is as a trainer for a real Sig, in my case a P220. (Yes, I know the Mosquito has a safety unlike the P220). Ambulance Driver got the rest of the description right.
Love the Ruger - it's tack driver, but did experience some mis-feeds with Federal bulk plated ammo.
The initial Ruger Mark III disassembly is something to be experienced without children in the house...
Woodworks66
I have the Ruger MKIII Hunter, it is a beautiful gun and wonderfully accurate. Take down is a !@#$%, but you can eventually master it. And you've got a decent amount of take-down experience. Consider it a "puzzle" gun.
I was going to recommend the Browning Buckmark. Not quite as accurate as my Hunter, nor as gorgeous (the MKHunter is a gunnies gun). But it's cheaper, and super-easy to clean - zero take down.
But apparently, that's not a MAsshole approve gun.
Have you considered a used MKII, I see a lot for around the $250 range for a blued model, occasionally even a bull barrel.
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