Thursday, March 11, 2010

Gunundrum...

Buy A Gun Day (please note the new URL) is a little over a month away. I'm torn on what to get - there's a fair amount of money in the gun fund; I'm waaaay behind on my acquisition schedule (haven't bought a gun yet this year, if you can believe it!); and I'm suffering from a baaaaad case of Iwannanewgunitis... Problem is, I don't know what I want...

In the course of trying to figure out just what I wanted to get, I decided to break it out into different categories. I'm hoping that if I can take a long look at the areas where I could use something, I might find the one gun that I simply must have... Right... All listed guns are in my price range (or close to it) and are available for me to buy - remember, living in MA I have to abide by the AWB for longarms and the Approved Firearms Roster for handguns.

So, here goes:

.22LR rifles: Just a couple on this list, as I already own about 8 or 9 .22LR rifles. However, only one of those rifles is a semi-automatic, magazine-fed rifle, my cranky Marlin 989. I'd like to pick up either a Ruger 10/22 (finally) to convert to an LTR for Appleseed or a S&W M&P22 as a low-cost training aid to the Bushmaster. Plus it just looks cool as all hell, and since it's in MA, 10 round magazines are available.

The Ruger's got an edge because it's about half the price and magazines are cheaper; the S&W has an edge because I've got a bunch of accessories for the Bushie that will work with the M&P22.

.22LR pistols: I am totally set for revolvers, having a target revolver (S&W 17), a single action revolver (Colt New Frontier), a training snubbie (S&W 34), and a novelty (NAA mini-22LR) among others. If I get another .22LR handgun, it's going to be an autoloader to complement the S&W model 422 and the (mostly inoperable) Hi-Standard Military-HD. It's a tough call between a Ruger 22/45, Ruger Mark III, Walther P22, or S&W 22A.

S&W has an edge in the top rail - the whole top of the gun is a Weaver rail, just perfect for red dot sights, scopes, etc. The Walther P22 is just all kinds of fun, lightweight and easy to handle. And the Rugers are simply ubiquitous - it's hard to find someone who doesn't already own one or know someone who does.

Potential darkhorse: Browning Buckmark if I can find one.

Centerfire rifles: Given my current price range, upper-end ARs and exotic rifles are out at this point in time. No $2,500 Remington 700s or Les Baer .264 ARs; no competition AR-15s or AR-10s. Possible rifles are another AK-47 clone a la the SAR-1 or WASR-10; a Mauser K98; or an M1 Carbine or M1 Garand from the CMP.

AK clone has the edge here because it's cheapest and I stand the best chance of getting one in time for BAG Day.

Centerfire pistols, CCW: Really, this is a small list. The Kahr PM9, the Ruger LCR, or a S&W 442 (ideally with no lock). They're in that order because that's the likelihood of getting any of them - Kahr PM9 is way out in front here, as it has the potential to be a good "year round" carry gun - it's small enough to slide into a pocket in a pair of cargo shorts in the summer, and is potent enough to be carried in the winter even when larger guns can be concealed. LCR would be nice for the novelty factor; S&W 442 would round out my S&W snubbie collection to finally include a hammerless revolver.

Edge: Clearly PM9. I don't have a pocketable 9mm, nor a Kahr, in the armory.

Centerfire pistols, Not CCW: Basically, I'd like to get a full-sized pistol with a rail. I'd love to get a S&W M&P9, however with the MA AWB it'll be a cold day in hell before I put a 10 round magazine into a gun designed for a 17 round magazine. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. I'll wait until I move to NH for that one. Now, the M&P45, OTOH, comes with a 10 round magazine stock, so it's a contender. Used Gen3 G21 is another possibility, as is a Gen3 17 or 22 (or even 19/23, for that matter - it's gotta be Gen3 with the rail, though).

Edge: S&W M&P45, as it's the only one I can readily get.

Dark horse: Uh, anything I happen to stumble across? I'd love to get my hands on a 8 3/8" barrel S&W model 29 or model 14; a .45 ACP revolver would be a fantastic addition to the armory; any number of mil-surp pistols a la CZ-82 or P-38; basically anything I happened tp

I've left shotguns off the list because I've got all the shotguns I could ever want or need, with the possible exception of the SBS Mossberg 590, which I will not be getting any time soon.




So... What should I get?

That is all.

31 comments:

libertyman said...

CMP Garand, get it while you you can. Or a carbine.

Anonymous said...

Quick comment on the .22 pistols, since I just bought a few. The Ruger MkIII and the 22/45 are basically the same pistol with different frame and mags. The 22/45 is marketed as a 1911 trainer with similar grip and control placement. There is even a new model 22/45 with replaceable grips (there is a way to mod the other 22/45s to use 1911 grips, but it's not for the faint of heart). All the Rugers come with a weaver style mount if you want to add optics. There is also an amazing array of aftermarket parts and home gunsmithing tips. The Mark series is truly the AR15 of .22 pistols. I paid around $280 for a brand new 22/45 blued target model, with 5.5" bull barrel, adj rear sight, and 2 mags. Field stripping is a bitch, but it's mostly a matter of practice. If you are so inclined (not sure I would if I lived in MA) you can eliminate the mag disconnect with the use of a $5 Mark II bushing, and that makes things much easier.

You also left off the Sig Mosquito. Since Lissa has one I assume it's MA legal. After some initial problems (caused by not reading the card that came with it indicating an important lube location that isnt obvious) it's reliable and accurate. It does seem to have an appetite for better ammo, at least while breaking it in. Even then, the CCI MiniMags or Federal AutoMatch it likes is really not THAT expensive. I think the minimags are $6-7/100rnds at wallyworld, with the bulk boxes of automatch even cheaper. It's a great trainer for the Sig 226 in particular, and a good intro to autoloading pistols in general since it has the look, feel, and controls of a typical carry gun. It's also got a rail so you can add a bayonet. :)
Paid $300 for the mosquito in 2 tone standard length barrel (they make a sport version with longer barrel) and adj sight.

Paladin said...

+1 on the Garand. That would be my own BAG day purchase, if I had the funds available. I'm going to have the cash for my Wife's Saiga just in time this year and that will clean me out until next year.

Having a Granddaughter has proved to be more expensive than I anticipated :)

Anonymous said...

Jay - I would say a Garand. I want to comment about your .22lr choices though. I just picked up the Marlin 795 for $129 at Dick's (it went on sale to $119 the next day) with a $25 rebate in addition. It's already closer to an LTR than a 10/22 and I'm told more accurate. Now I don't own a 10/22 but I've taken my 795 out and I like it. A lot.

Farm.Dad said...

I have to say that of your list(s) The two that shine to me are the Garand and the Kahr pm. I have a Kahr pm9 and love it . With that said , the Kahr is still in production and easily available . The Garand not so much with dwindling stocks of nice ones . I need to pick one up myself in fact .

Anonymous said...

I HAVE a Browning Buckmark. Go for the Garand. A nice little pistol, and cheap to feed, but it's finicky. I have to play with the allen wrenches to keep it from jamming and I need to clean it halfway through a range session.

The .45 government model I own is an Energizer bunny next to it.

Anonymous said...

Every American should own a Garand. Not only are they an investment in our history, they are an actual investment. One of my biggest regrets was putting off purchasing one through CMP because it's a small hassle and a long wait to do so. Well, I put it off when they were $150. I put it off when they were $250. I put it off when they were $450. Then there were no more to be had for a long time. When they finally got more in, I snagged one ASAP. A service grade (good shooter) currently runs $600 with a 2 month waiting list to get one. DO IT. http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm

Jay G said...

Hmmm.

I'm getting the distinct impression that the Garand should move up a peg or two on the list...

One question for the Garandophiles: Is the difference between "Field" grade and "Service" grade worth $100?

mopar,

The Sig, while very nice, is also rather finicky. Lissa's ran decent on "premium" ammo (I consider anything that doesn't come in a big box from Wal-Mart to be premium when it comes to .22LR).

TOTWTYTR's P22 ran fine on the Federal bulk plated I keep in a 30 cal ammo can.

faitmaker,

The 10/22 can be had for under $200 on sale, has WAY more options available, and the magazines are cheap and plentiful. I've got enough rifles in the armory that are a bitch to find parts and mags for... :)

farmdad,

The Kahr is a tempting choice, but, as you mention, I can get that at any time.

The more I think about it, the more I think I might get an order together for the CMP *and* pick up a .22LR pistol...

doubletrouble said...

Given any thought to a "reach out & touch" rifle, like a boltie .308, '06, etc.?

Savage, f'rinstance, makes some modestly priced HBAR rifles that are minute of eyeball waaaay out there.

Anonymous said...

RE: Garand. IMNHO the difference between the 2 is well worth the $100 if you can swing it.

FIELD GRADE: (Fair to Good)
Field Grade Rifles. Most of these rifles have been refinished or rebuilt at least once while in military service and will likely have some parts from other manufacturers. Fair to good condition. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the finish; there may be some minor pitting on the metal parts; wood will be basically sound but may be well used with minor hairline cracks, and many dings, scratches and gouges; wood may not match in color, type of wood or condition. These rifles may have some foreign parts and wood may be Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety. Rifles do not have import marks. Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections; the barrel crown may be nicked, and the muzzle may gauge more than “3” on muzzle gauge. The Throat Erosion will gauge less than 5 – well within US Army standards. Do not expect rifles in mint condition in this grade.
SERVICE GRADE: (Good to Very Good)
Service Grade Rifles show less wear and better appearance than Field or Rack Grades. Good to very good condition. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the parkerized finish. There may be some minor pitting on the metal parts. Wood will be either Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety and will be basically sound but may have minor hairline cracks, dings, scratches and gouges. Wood may not match in color or type of wood. Wood may be of new production on Service Grade Garands. Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections. The barrel crown may be nicked, but the muzzle will gauge less than 3 and the throat erosion will gauge less than 5.


RE: The Sig. I hear ya on the ammo, but Federal AM is available pretty cheap at walmart in 325rnd bulk boxes, so it still meets your requirement, pffft. :)
I also hear once it's broken in on the decent stuff it will fire the dirt cheap stuff. Time will tell. The wife wasn't fond of the look or feel of the Walther, so we went with the Sig.

Mike W. said...

Jay - Don't rule out a Firestorm FS22. It's a great little .22 pistol for ~$250.

Jay G said...

Except that it's not on the MA Approved Firearms Roster...

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

NONE of the above! Something esoteric. Like an AR7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-7

Anonymous said...

Ruger MarkIII over Sig. Sig comes with only one mag, and the mags cost $48.00. WTF?

MarkIII mags will not fit MarkII.

weaponoffishdestruction@gmail.com said...

Jay,
I would caution you to read up well on the MP15/22, Alot of problems. The SR22 is a fine 10/22 and will take a variey of tacti-cool accessories.

Stretch said...

In order:
1. Garand
2. Garand
3. Garand.
Ya, I'm biased. I want one SO bad but with wife and I both facing lay offs in May it's just not gonna happen.

For .22 pistol go with the 22/45. Great training for the 1911. For ease of cleaning get stainless, hose it out with spray cleaner and lube it. I haven't disassembled my stainless MkII in over 5 years using that process. Only problems directly attributable to bad magazine.

.22 rifle? 10/22. Get just the receiver and go wild with the Mid-nell's catalog. Quality time with The Boy building a custom tack driver.

w/v= "goreo" What makes Al so fat.

ASM826 said...

Jay,

What sort of Remington 700 sells for $2500.00?

I bought one this week. It has a black composite stock, parkerized barrel, with a (cheap) scope on it, chambered in 30.06, for $350.00.

Not to say that's what you want or need, just commenting on price. If you don't have one, I'd probably join my voice to the chorus of "Garand! Garand!".

Jay G said...

The tactical variants can get up close to $2K. Or you can get a $1000 rifle and a $1500 scope pretty easy...

ASM826 said...

Yea, after I posted the question, I went and looked. Titanium receivers, custom fluted barrels, custom trigger work, bedded stocks. And then there is the scope...

Now I feel like I bought a cheap gun. I like that feeling, though. I'd like to shoot mine side by side with one of the fancy ones and see if there's $2000.00 dollars worth of difference. (Hear that Remington?, just leave a comment at randomactsofpatriotism.blogspot.comand I'll tell you which FFL to send the fancy one to. I promise a heads up test, with multiple types of ammo at various ranges, between my pawn shop Remington 700 and your super titanium wonder 700. I'll write the whole thing up for publication and let JayG re-post it as well.)

Papa Whiskey said...

Just bought a Kahr PM9 yesterday! Now I just have to "cool off" for the next 10 days. Arrgh!

Jay G said...

Or Remington could just send me BOTH rifles and I could test them side by side... ;)

PapaWhiskey, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the PM9 once you get it if you'd be so kind...

Andrew C said...

If you want a Carbine from the CMP then you're better off buying sooner than later. They posted some Service Grades a couple weeks ago and several manufacturers sold out almost immediately. Inlands are no longer available. Thoughts are the CMP isn't getting more Carbines and they're starting to run low.

Got a SG HRA M1 and SG Standard Products Carbine on the way so they'll be my purchase for BAGD.

Andrew C said...

And if you do get a Garand, go for the Service Grade. Well worth the money since you can't hand pick it at one of the stores. I got a post-war SA and it's in excellent shape:

My First M1 Garand

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

Ok, they're right. Get a Garand.

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

kinda shocked you don't already have one.

Anonymous said...

Darn, I'll be having a tea party in DC that day...
Still may get a Ruger MkIII that week!

ASM826 said...

Jay,

If Remington comes through, you and I will find some way to get together and shoot them so we can make a joint report.

Farm.Dad said...

Jay If you make it out for the blog meet Ill let you not only shoot , but pack my pm9 around a bit . That way you can get a feel for just what it is and isnt .

Rabbit said...

You absolutely need to consider a Garand. I wouldn't part with mine for love nor money.

I'd be inclined to bump the Buck Mark higher up the list, too. Granted, the Ruger Mark is the '55 Chevy/VW Beetle of pistols in that you can get any doo-dad imaginable for them, but why be a follower when you can lead? WC's mention of Allen wrenches is somewhat true, but a little Loctite fixes that. Mine is dead nuts accurate and I've not had any significant problems with ammo. It does seem to prefer hotter stuff, though. I put a Weaver rail on top with a holosight, but it came with Tru-Glo sights. Side by side, it was an easy winner over a Mosquito at purchase time, and I'm a SiG fan.

.22 auto rifles, though, are a different story. 10/22 wins because of the same J.C. Whitney mentality behind the Marks. Volquartsen that thing to the hilt.

Regards,
Rabbit.

bogie said...

I gottta a G17 (gen 3), lightly used (maybe 150 rounds), and night sights that I am willing to part with. I found that it just doesn't fit my hand as well as I thought it did.

Hmm, I don't think I can sell it to you though since we are residents of different states.

Well, it was a thought anyway.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and if you go with a Ruger or Browning .22lr pistol, you MUST get the poorly named but ingeniously designed McFadden Ultimate Cliploader. This thing is simply slathered in awesome sauce. Loads a magazine in seconds, so you can blow through that cheap ammo even faster.