Authorities in Wichita and some other cities across the country are investigating vandalism against Democratic offices, apparently in response to health care reform.And on Monday, a former Alabama militia leader took credit for instigating the actions.
Mike Vanderboegh of Pinson, Ala., former leader of the Alabama Constitutional Militia, put out a call on Friday for modern “Sons of Liberty” to break the windows of Democratic Party offices nationwide in opposition to health care reform. Since then, vandals have struck several offices, including the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita.
We are not the Taliban. We do not deal with the opposition by intimidation and stupid stunts. We are nice right up until it's time to not be nice - and it's not that time, not yet.
And please, stow the bullshit about "we don't have free elections because of ACORN". Where the hell were you when Lautenberg got put on the ticket after Torricelli tanked? When John Kerry and Ted Kennedy ran unopposed? Hell, there's plenty of evidence that Hizzoner Daley's daddy stuffed enough ballot boxes in Chicago to swing the election from Nixon to Kennedy.
To say nothing of the "Cold dead hands" rhetoric ringing laughably short in the wake of the Katrina confiscations.
Tossing a brick through a Democratic party headquarters is not "sabre-rattling". It's bullshit dimestore bullying no matter how noble your intentions may be. You're not making a stand, you're being a friggin' thug, no better than the thugs that slashed the tires on the GOP get out the vote van in WI. I'll bet they thought they were sending a message, too.
What's next? Are we going to stand outside of voting polls with truncheons to "make a point"? Are we going to buy the votes of the homeless with cigarettes? Chain the doors of Democratic candidate headquarters closed?
Look. It's bullshit when they do it. That doesn't give us the right to stoop to their level. Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ here, people, it's like I'm talking to my kids. "Because he hit me" is not a valid reason to haul off and belt your brother. If it doesn't work for a six year old, it's certainly not going to work for alleged adults.
If you have to resort to petty crimes and thuggery to get your point across, maybe it's a pretty shitty point.
That is all.
26 comments:
I am going to disagree, politely, and offer no words to support my disagreement.
I will respectfully disagree.
Protesting failed to dissuade them, calling and writing their offices was a waste of time.
A "window war" hurts no one and is an intermediate step before folks might decide to "vote from the rooftops", and it might just get their attention. If not, then comes the time to abandon civility, but not without a great deal of thought.
YMMV
Without disagreeing, I will say this: if not now, when? Exactly where, in the long train of abuses and usurpations, are we to draw the line? If we wait for them to come for us, it is already too late.
However, I have to disagree, respectfully, with Mr.B. One who throws rocks through windows has already abandoned civility.
wv: gramp. My gramps came to America to get away from this kind of government.
I'm very much of two minds on this issue. I want to be the bigger man... hell, the gentleman.
"We tried reasoned discourse repeatedly, and it failed. We voted with our wallets, our phones, our computers, our pens and paper, and yes, we voted with our ballots ... and it failed. We tried everything a reasonable man could try - and it failed. We surrendered our rights, piecemeal and with a war of words alone - and WE failed."
Makes a hell of an epitaph when the birth announcement starts with, "When in the course of human events...," don't you think?
I know - and agree - that the break-ees will Godwin the ever-loving-fuck out of this and scream "Kristallnacht! FASCISTS!" ... because the party line is that of an underdog, nevermind that it is their own legislation, incognizance, and outright ignorance that has led things to this precipice. Nevermind that it was the reigning party that committed the crimes of Kristallnacht. How many people know their history well enough to know that? They'll hear a german word, and "fascists", and make the leap all on their own - as long as Idol is on that night.
I agree with Roberta's description of the person making noise, though. A self-described threeper, but instead of leading from the front, standing in the background yelling loudly.
Jay, I will readily admit it: I am terrified of the road we are on. We have more information available to us, much faster, than anyone in human history. We have witnessed the destruction of nearly every form of government known to man, many within the last century. The system we have (had) worked well - until it outgrew itself. Now someone is trying to figure out how to go back to where we were, based on the actions of men two hundred and fifty years ago.
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - Gen. Geo. Santayana
I cannot sign my entries "III". Perhaps "X" is more appropriate. While I won't be out there throwing rocks, I cannot condemn and may well turn a blind eye to those who do.
"[W]ith a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor." - July 4, 1776
I find these words echoing in my mind and in my heart on a continuous basis. What debt do we owe our forebears, and what gift can we give our posterity?
"X"
We haven't exhausted our options.
Yet.
We can't abandon civility.
Yet.
You can't tell me that the Republicans/Tea Party/Conservatives have made an all-out push on this. You can't.
There were no ads. No editorials. Not even a damned YouTube.
Look, the movement against the health care bill was fantastic. It gave me hope for the future of this nation - for once, people were sitting up and taking notice of the political process. For once, people were caring more beyond the soundbites.
But to go and piss it all away because the Democrats managed to bribe, cajole, and otherwise browbeat other Democrats?
BULLFUCKINGSHIT.
Work twice as hard to elect honest-to-G-d CONSERVATIVES in November.
Send the fucking message to the spineless GOP that we will NO LONGER tolerate RINOs - if they cannot produce a serious conservative candidate, then it's time they went the way of the dodo and got the hell out of the way so someone else CAN.
This *WILL* be used against us. Hell, it *IS* being used against us.
This dumbassed stunt probably just CEMENTED health care reform as it stands - no one at the national level is going to stand up and speak out against it now on pain of being associated with these jackasses.
Quite simply, if it's time to break the law, why stop at such petty crap? If it's time to break windows, it's time to shoot the bastards.
And I don't think we're there.
Yet.
Jay,
I respectfully disagree. Not because I endorse the tactic, but because it is a message that they understand. We are truly two different nations sharing a common border. The world views of each are irreconcilable. The forces trying to subjugate us have been using every tool in the box for more than 50 years now. I don't condone window breaking if there are other ways to get the message across, but at some point the warning shot must be fired.
Better it be a brick through glass than a brick of brass.
Pax,
Its hard to clarify a stance on this. The good citizen in me wants to denounce these actions as foolish thuggery, but the bad citizen makes me chuckle and wish those windows were the heads of some elite bitches.
One upset coworker said, "I'm tired of them telling me what to do." I am too. We all are. People are really angry. I think they want the idiots in charge to know how angry they are. We've seen the dems breaking the law many many times. Perhaps its not so horrible that they know other folks can do the same damn thing.
And one other point:
You state that the opposition to Health Care hasn't been running ads.
False.
Here in the DC Metro where the politicians are, the opposition was running ads around the clock. As for editorials, I assume you mean by conservative writers, right? Those syndicated columnists DID write them. No newspapers editorialized against, because they wanted it to pass.
Does window-breaking cost us the moral high ground? Possibly.
Are you actually seeing coverage of it? Absolutely.
Compare the coverage of 5 windows breaking nationally to the amount of coverage that the Tea Party rallies got over the weekend, or even on 9/12/09. Then try and tell me that the medium wasn't effective at getting the point across, when the rallies were obviously ignored.
I agree that civility must reign. I do not believe that in order to retain civility I must be the one to compromise my values. Yet, that is the expectation EVERY TIME. Sorry. Not going to back up any more. It is time for them to retreat.
Another disagreement here.
Check your history c.1765.
I've not seen one word that, when standing on the soapbox, you're not allowed a prop or two.
Anybody who wants to urge me to vote from the rooftops had better do so from the top of the ladder, otherwise it's all just talk and bluster.
I agree with you, JayG. A descent into thuggery will not only feed the stereotypes of the right as promulgated by the left, it's a step, and a bit one, towards politics as practiced in banana republics.
While Obama et al, might want us to become a banana republic, we are not there yet and should resist that at all costs.
Americans get their revenge at the ballot box. Put your energy into organizing for pro freedom candidates. We can defeat the Democraps in November if we put up good candidates and work for them. We know THEY are going to cheat, we just have to make sure that our candidate gets enough votes to be outside the margin of voter fraud.
People will react. This isn't exactly a coordinated movement (F!Vanderboegh) just a couple of fringies.
Did it get the message to the pols? It certainly got A message, but I suspect it wasn't the right one. Instead of them realising that us plebs were dissatisfied with the legislation, they can now dwell on the rightwing fruitcakes. (Which F!Vanderboegh certainly is)
A brick to the window of a voting pol is leagues better than a bomb at an army recruitment office. But I cannot condone any of that. Break my window and I'll have the brass reloaded before the coroner arrives.
Was it smart? No. Would a fringe blogger inspire someone to throw a brick? Idunno but I am quite confident the arrogant politicians who know what is best would be FAR more inspiring.
Pols now understand we are pissed. But that is a hollow message. The important message to convey was WHY we are pissed. Frankly, I have no idea what it would take for them to understand the impact to our personal finances, health care choices, the free market, and our individual businesses.
Here's one - I am locked into a contract to provide medical products. In 13 weeks, *I* am responsible for a 2.3% tax (gross sales) on those products. At 25% margin, that works out to be almost 10% of my profit - taken right out of my hand.
But that doesn't matter, because it's for the good of the nebulous 'people'.
Prior to this bill, we all had a right to healthcare. Now they are forcing us to use that right. One would wonder if the corrolary to the right to bear arms - does this mean we all be entitled (nay, forced to take!) to free ammo?
Jay,
I agreed with your original post, but I disagree with your comment. I am not responsible for the actions of others. Not Democrats, Republicans, or Threepers.
You said, "This *WILL* be used against us. Hell, it *IS* being used against us."
It is a specious argument to use the behavior of individuals and apply them to the goals of a group.
It is, in fact, the very same argument being used to say that since some people commit crimes with firearms, everyone should have their access to firearms restricted.
It is a dumbassed stunt, and a criminal act, but it doesn't effect the fact that the changes in health care are already cemented. Unless it is very quickly held up in the courts and overturned, it will not be stopped. That's why passing it was so important to the socialists. No one is going to stand up and speak out nationally. It is done and we will never go back to the system we had last week.
I was raised to avoid violence, including damage to someone's property, until the moment when I had no other recourse.
Some folks think that time is now. They have to make that decision for themselves, just like they'll have to accept the consequences for those decisions - good or bad.
The Dems did an awful thing, and it will take a lot of effort on our part to undo it - if it can be undone at all. Further, they ignored the will of the people and crammed what they wanted down our throats.
To me, though, the next step in that process isn't throwing a brick through someone's window. Its not threatening to kill someone. It's not doing something stupid and spending the next several years in prison where I'll be no good to anyone - aside from making a nice wife for some dude bigger than me.
The next step for rational people is to use the actual system that we have left to punish the Dems. Purge them from office via the upcoming elections. Do the hard work of supporting good conservative candidates. Focus your anger and energy toward educating your friends and co-workers about WHY what has happened is an awful idea.
If we didn't have a way to throw out the people who did this- it might be a different story. But we do. Any non-legal means of expressing our displeasure, at this point, smacks of revenge.
There's a time and place for Vengence. It ain't now.
Not that this is a defense but it will be used against us even if we "don't" do it. Remember all the racist accusations? Remember how we are the violent people even when the SEIU was beating on an old man?
I respectfully disagree that it isn't a valid response. I will agree that this isn't the time for that response. I will allow for our states to try to get the country back on course.
And Tam, nobody has asked you to climb the rooftop yet, but when we do, you can follow up behind me.
It worked for our founding fathers. If we *have* to, it will work again.
I'm not to the *have* to point.
While we are refraining from stooping to their level, I notice they are handing us our asses.
Agreed: Not the time.
Further statement: Hopefully, NEVER the time.
YFS: Not really very optimistic re (2)
YFFS: Con-Con's are marginally better than revolutions.
YFFFS: We *DO* have an election coming up, and the courts available to us. What say we try those before getting all grim about things?
YFFFFS: Failing judicial or electoral relief, Con-Con is horrifying but preferable.
YFFFFFS: Only then, god forbid the day, is it likely to be time. And should it come, actions both great and small to torment the tyrant have merit.
I am deeply concerned about the direction our nation is taking both in terms of policy and in terms of historical parallel.
I recall both my lessons on the pre-civil war period and the pre-WWII FDR era, and am disturbed by the similarities. I look at the policies of FDR, and Obama's seem simply more gilt-covered and slyly delivered versions of the same old meme's writ big.
One of a politicians primary responsibilities, regardless of their ilk, is to refrain from pushing the people so far, so fast, as to foment a rebellion.
I fear Mr. Obama and his coterie have forgotten this fundamental trust.
We live in interesting times. Dammit.
How does anyone know that it's not disenfranchised liberals doing the brick-throwing?? Their boy just signed the biggest pro-business bill since well....his last biggest pro business bill, and his followers are upset. For someone who is supposed to hate capitalism he sure is bordering on the precipice of fascism/corporatism. His hippie followers are pretty pissed about that.
and....how is someone supposed to get their voice heard?? The pols just do not listen anymore. they've got their agenda and that's it. What else is a good liberal supposed to do?? write a letter?
And...how do we know that David Axelrod didn't set it up just to do the possible cementing that you speak of.
Thing is, we've got people allegedly on our side who are admitting to doing it. If this is some liberal set-up, it's one helluva deep conspiracy.
Now, is it possible that some liberal SOB took that call for action and ran with it? Oh hell yes; it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
The fact remains, though, that there are folks on "our side" of the issue calling for random acts of petty violence in response to the Health Care Reform fiasco.
My feeling is that it's not yet time for that. Period.
Well, be that as it may....civil discourse has run much if it's track. We're reaching the sand trap at the end. What else should someone do to get someone else to listen? As someone else said, I'm not out throwing bricks (yet) but I'm certainly not going to stop anyone. The left has been throwing bricks since the 60s, and killing people, and setting places on fire, etc. etc. Yet they vilify their nemeses for same? Ugh.
Or maybe the MSM fluffed it up a bit ? What would it take to accurately get a brick through a 30th floor window?
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/oh-brother-lib-media-claims-rock-was-thrown-through-reps-office-on-30th-floor/
Maybe you are right. Not bricks. Molotov Cocktails.
They won't listen to the people their putative bosses. They will not stay within the bounds of the constitution. They will not back down.
I don't expect a Mass Yankee to understand, but not all of like having the comforting jackboot upon our necks.
Everybody says not now but when? When they burn women and children? Done already. When they blatantly ignore their oaths? Done Already. When a long train of abuses and usurpation evincing only one goal to reduce us under absolute despotism? DONE ALREADY!
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