So I've been thinking of trying my hand at long(er) distance shooting. It appears that the family aptitude for shooting rifles didn't skip a generation like shooting pistols apparently did (Dad qualified as Expert on the MA State Police - with either hand!). Right now, I'm looking at something that I can test out for MOA-worthy shooting at 100 - 150 yards (the limit of the rifle range at my club); if/when I develop sufficiently at that level I can look into longer distances.
(And yes, Ross, I know I'll have to attend an Appleseed shoot, too...)
Looking at the rifles in my armory, one choice to get started is the VEPR. It has a standard AK-47 side mount for a rail, so attaching a Weaver rail should be a piece of cake. It's unclear if an Ultimak-style handguard mount would fit on the VEPR, so the more universal side-rail mount holds more appeal for an initial set-up (besides, if it doesn't work with the VEPR, I can toss it on the Saiga-20 for a red dot or holographic sight down the road). I seem to recall hearing that these mounts weren't the most stable for optics, but most of the reviews indicate this mount is pretty secure.
Other than the VEPR, most of my rifles are either rimfire or military surplus bolt actions. In order to attach any kind of optics, I'd need to drill receivers, etc. to get a scope mount on a $100 rifle. While a decent mid-range rifle is definitely on my list of guns I'd like to get, I'd like to concentrate on setting something up for what I've got right now.
With that in mind, what's a good scope for 100 - 150 yards? I'd be looking for something that's not going to cost more than the rifle, so figure somewhere in the $200 - $300 range or so. I understand that, with optics, you really do get what you pay for; however for the purposes of this exercise I'm looking for something that will deliver decent performance at a moderate price. It doesn't have to give 1/4MOA accuracy - that comes later - but it's got to be better than a $40 ChiCom knock-off scope...
What's a good entry-level close-range scope for this kind of application?
That is all.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
24 comments:
What milsurp rifle are you considering? There are no-drill mounts for many of the common ones, and most of the common milsurp bolties are reasonably accurate at the distances you want with decent ammo.
I'm a diehard fan of the Nikon ProStaff lineup. There are twin 3-9x40s (in silver, no less) on my Savage MkII and MrsZ's 10/22. You can generally find them in the $140-160 range. (OpticsPlanet is a good bet.)
(Second parenthetical: while I happen to have them on rimfires, it is a centerfire scope, and one of them was originally gracing a Mini-14, until I realized that scoping a Mini-14 only makes you see how bad your pattern is without walking down range.)
(Third parenthetical: I don't have one, I just wanted to use another set of parentheses.)
()
()
:-D
mopar,
Well, I've got three that are candidates right off the bat:
Mosin-Nagant 91/30
Mosin-Nagant M44
Model 38 Turkish Mauser
None have any sentimental value to me; milsurp ammo for either is both plentiful and (reasonably) cheap - and both with commercial ammo available at a premium.
I know the 91/30 has a synthetic stock available for it; if I were to go this route I'd probably order up another 91/30 because they're so darned cheap.
I'm thinking the VEPR because all I need is the Weaver mount and she's good to go, and chambered in G-d's own caliber (.308 Win)...
ZerCool,
Thanks for the plug on the Nikon (and the LOL on the Mini-14. Poor mini-14, she gets no respect...)
My Mini-14 got lots of respect, and I'm still regretting selling it. It's an honest eat-anything 5.56 that will keep a 4MOA "group" with the factory ring sights. It's ugly as sin but doesn't scream "scary black rifle" to the nannies, and particularly in the stainless/synthetic configuration, is immune to damn near everything. Mine rode behind the back seat of my truck pretty much 24/7 'til I sold the truck. It lives up to its name: "Ranch Rifle".
Yes, I want another one. :)
In general, I'd say to get the most expensive scope within your price range with the least amount of features, from a reputable company. In practice, this is Leupold, Nikon, Burris, Pentax and (IMHO) Weaver.
Your first step, though, is to get a good mount. There is a lot of variation in the Commie side rail scope mounts. Buy the mount you want from somewhere with a no BS return policy, then put the mount on and check for straightness and wobble. If it doesn't fit, return it and get another one. Repeat until you're satisfied.
Specifically on scopes, I think you'd be better off with a fairly low, and preferably fixed, magnification. I like the Weaver fixed series a lot for price and quality. I have a 6x on my Remington 700, but I wish I had gotten the 4x.
A scope intended for a shotgun might also be a good idea. They usually have good field of view and are built tough. They also have small optic bells so you can mount them low. This is really important on an AKish gun, since the siderail mount puts the scope way the hell up there anyway.
You're probably going to have to put some kind of riser on the stock to get a proper cheek weld. ¡BLACKHAWK! makes a decent lace-on one for about $20
Don't skimp on the rings. Cheap rings are out of round, don't line up and mount poorly. I'm partial to vertically split QD Warnes ($40 or so), but Leupold makes some decent rings for $20ish.
Check out the Sample List for some good scope deals. In particular, they have a $99 Nikon 3x9-40 that might work out well.
You're a good, good man pdb...
That's some excellent information right there - esp. the Nikon scope (I consider two references for one brand pretty darn good).
The mount I linked is UTG - I'll order it from Midway, who are just plain awesome - and I've got a UTG railed handguard on my Bushmaster that's just plain old rock-solid, so I'm a believer in their products.
(NOTE TO UTG: I TEST STUFF...) *g*
I've got plenty of red dots/cheap scopes I can use to check stability...
(And yes, Ross, I know I'll have to attend an Appleseed shoot, too...)
So nu? What are you waiting for? Christmas? Or the next AS in a foot and a half of snow? ;-)
What is wrong with the rifle in your header?
Not to disagree, but I have not had good luck with Nikon stuff. I won't buy one of their scopes. I would get a good used scope, if that is what the budget allows.
Patrick,
Good question. The rifle in the header is a Bushmaster 5.56mm carbine - I'm not exactly confident of .223 at 300+ meters. I'd prefer something in G-d's own caliber for that.
Besides, I can always get a 20" bull barrel flattop upper for the Bushmaster - what would the fun be in *that*? ;)
liberytman,
Counterpoints are always good.
Like I said, I think right now my goal is to get something I can dabble with, something I can put on the VEPR with minimal fuss and expense to see how I handle long-distance shooting. I've never shot at distances greater than 50 yards (for any meaningful shooting, I may have taken one or two shots with a .50 BMG at Harvard) and would like to expand my reach as it were...
If the shooting with the VEPR goes well, I might consider buying a dedicated rifle - a la the Remington 700 5R that comes highly recommended at a reasonable price...
You should really be able to find mounts and stocks for the mauser or the mosin. Check out http://accumounts.com they have lots of no gunsmith mounts for milsurps. Boyds has all kinds of stocks: http://www.boydsgunstocks.com and Huber can set you up with a trigger http://www.huberconcepts.com
Why not shoot longer distances with iron sights? As long as your vision is half decent, you really don't need a scope at 100 yards.
Your second statement explains it, zeeke. I'm an old bastard with old eyes...
Vasily Zaytsev did it with a Nagant, what more do you need?
If you are talking 300m+, any scope will be defeated by milsurp ammo!
Scope the Mauser.
Leupold fixed 3 or 4 power.
And as owner of a pair of eyes way older than yours check out the reticule called "European Post" a.k.a. No. 4 or German Sniper (That makes it more accurate, dontchaknow).
I understand Redfield is back in business as a subsidiary of Leupold. Might be an economical alternative to a Leupold.
Jay,
No scope will help any rifle with any sort of flawed trigger.
The Mauser is the likely winner for trigger quality among the rifles you've listed. A Mosin can have a great trigger, but that's a random find in a stack of surplus rifles.
I love Nikon's optical quality, but the Burris line impresses me with it's combined quality of optical excellence and mechanical durability. And, Burris tends to have very reasonable pricing for a good scope.
So, spend your $200/$300 on a decent scope. Spend another $80/$100 on a decent trigger 'smithing, and then you'll have something worth shooting.
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
How much cutting and smithing are you considering doing to your rifle? This is important, because the quality of the mounting hardware is pretty crucial to keep things tight. Of the three rifles you have listed, I would pick the Mauser, but only because I have the most experience with these. I had a Turk that I sporterized, quite a while ago now, that would put 220 grain Sierras into 3/4 of an inch at 100 yards, and the trigger is easily smoothed up into something that is, if not crisp, then at least consistent. In the scope department, its quite possible to get a pretty dang good scope in the $100 to $200 range, especially if you can find a good used one. I have always had good luck with Bushnell, right now theres an elite 3200 3-9x on my 270, and she's good out to 600 (not that I am, but the gun is). I also recommend Burris and Leupold, but they cost a bit more. You might try the new scopes from Redfield, as they are manufactured by Leupold now as an entry level line. I would recommend against the shotgun scope, though, as they are parallax corrected at 30-40 yards, and would not be good at 100 plus.
Considering the relatively short range, you might be a bit hasty in dismissing the products of the Glorious People's Revolutionary Optics Factory.
Yeah, they're cheap, but they're also inexpensive: you can mess around with, say the NCStar 6x42 mil-dot for about $30. If you hate it, it doesn't hurt to toss it.
Or, you can get a decent (ie, not aluminum) scout mount that replaces the rear sight on your M38 Turk, and get a decent pistol scope that you can move to one of your pistols if you don't like it. If you go that route, go for a 30mm tube: it makes a diference. Check eBay, as you can find a really good deal if the seller has issues with the English language.
.223 is capable of hitting a man sized target out to 500 yards.
I'll agree with the other comments being made here though. Milsurp is going to ruin your day if you are looking at 300 meters.
I agree with Patrick - use the AR before you start spending money on other rifles.
Use the iron sights, they'll do you just fine at 160yds, not to mention at an Appleseed.
I'll fall in with the few "iron-sighters" on this discussion. I shoot quite a bit in 100 yard competition with blackpowder firearms, iron sights only, and it has improved all of my offhand shooting. I, too, have tired eyes, but have found that a Merit adjustable aperture sight on the shooting glasses is a blessing for getting everything into focus at one time. They are not terribly expensive, but you can try the concept with a piece of black electrical tape with a small (> 1/8" hole) on your shooting glasses. Using this setup will force you to use the same stock weld each time also, a sort of side benefit. Nothing against scopes (I have several of various makes and really like my Leopold), and not saying you should never go to scopes, but an aperture on the shooting glasses will bump up your long range skills and scores considerably at little expense. It will also let you start building your skills with any of your rifles while looking for the right scope/rifle combination.
Also, as Peter mentioned, the option of a scout scope mount on the Mauser is attractive. My brother has a Ruger Frontier with a Leopold scout scope that I covet mightily.
Jay,
Here are some good scope mounts for Milsurp:
http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html
and if you want to go to conventional mounts, these will help:
http://www.mosinnagant.net/Boltman/Boltman.html
I use an ATI stock on a Moisin 91/30 and love it.
Taktron
Oh c'mon bro: almost any scope out there will hold MOB... >:P
Post a Comment