Monday, May 10, 2010

*That* Video...

You know the one I mean. The one from MO with the cops kicking the door in to bust someone for pot distribution. The one where they shoot his dogs, terrorize his family, and drag him from his home in the middle of the night for... misdemeanor levels of marijuana.

This one.

I've refrained from comment thus far as this story kicks around the blogosphere. This is one of those stories where raw emotion takes over and the first thing that comes to mind is something I don't want committed to print with my IP address attached to it, suffice to say. Leaving aside the incredible idiocy of the "War" on Drugs (can we surrender yet?) and the mystifying span of time between the issuing of the warrant and the raid itself - if they were so concerned about the disposal of marijuana before the arrest, why did days elapse between the warrant and the raid; there's a larger issue at play here, and one that comes up from time to time in the gun blogosphere.

What if it were your house?

There's enough instances of wrong addresses and improper information out there to have this at least in the back of your mind. I think that a pounding on the door in the dead of night would at least have us reaching for our firearms; what if they're yelling "POLICE" or "WARRANT" or some other possible LE code word? The general consensus is that the average person commits three felonies a day on average without even meaning to - it's entirely possible they could be coming for you for any reason, especially if you're a gun owner. Even if you are 100% squeaky clean, odds are good that if you engage the SWAT team you will lose, and even if you do manage to survive the engagement, you'll end up on death row if you kill one of the officers.

Now, that said, if someone's kicking in my door in the middle of the night there's a good chance I'm not even going to have a chance to reach for my sidearm. I'm a pretty heavy sleeper, and although the Mrs. is a light sleeper, chances are she wouldn't get me up until the door was actually broken. I might have a chance to grab the katana near the bed or the 5 cell maglite, but not get the P226 out of the safe or the Mossberg out of the lock. Even assuming I could reach a firearm in time, I'll have my personal weapon ready while a team that trains specifically for this sort of thing invades my house.

Odds are pretty good I'm going to die.

This isn't something we can train for, not realistically. The average person does not have at their disposal the means to replicate a multiple hostile invasion; nor do even the most advanced IDPA stages have a "from the bed in your tidy whiteys" stage, at least that I'm aware of. This ventures into the realm of the purely theoretical, mainly - whereas those that would kick in our doors have no such limitations. We're at multiple disadvantages here - we don't have the tools, we don't have the training, and we don't have the law on our side. So what can we do?

Well, first of all we need to keep the heat on the heat when they screw up - and this raid was screwed up six ways to Sunday. If the judge who approved the warrant is an elected official, throw him out. If he's appointed, throw out whoever appointed him. Make sure the police officers are held responsible - they need to account for every single bullet that leaves their guns just like we do. Secondly, work to repeal the idiotic laws that give the police these incredible powers. There's simply no reason to kick down a homeowner's door because you suspect they're selling marijuana. End the "Always Think Forfeiture" mindset. Prosecute.

And keep the pressure on cases like this one where the police should have handled things differently.

That is all.

12 comments:

B said...

And, of course, we see from the video that the xpected response time to answer a door is approximately 11 seconds (see the video, :32 to :43) If you don't answer the door, you are not cooperating, so they have an excuse to break the door down).

While I MIGHT be able to get the pistol out and aimed in enough time, rushing me is NOT a good thing there...Likely all I am going to realize is that there is a man with a gun in my hallway. I would hope that I could identify my target in enough time, but would I?

And if I fire upon a police officer in the presence of his (heavily) armed cohorts, what do you think happens?

One would think that there should be some reasonable standard to allow time to respond to a knock on the door, or why bother at all? And an announcement op "police" in a muted tone isn't going to make me much less inclined to defend my hearth and home.... especially when the next thing I hear is my door splintering inwards.

Ther is NEVER a good way to break someone's door down and not expect a response. Add in the sound of gunshots and you have nothing left but a firefight.

Everyone loses.

And for what?

zeeke42 said...

"nor do even the most advanced IDPA stages have a "from the bed in your tidy whiteys" stage, at least that I'm aware of."

I've shot a couple of lying on bed under blanket, gun and mags in gunvault, flashlight sitting next to it, total darkness stages, but that's as close as we can get. We still wear pants, we're not asleep, we know it's going to happen, and the targets don't shoot back. Even with all those caveats, it's really challenging.

IDPA can't possibly replicate a real defensive situation, but it's definitely more pressure than shooting alone at the range. It's amazing the difference that the pressure of the timer and your friends watching makes the first couple times.

Old NFO said...

My shotty is 2 seconds away and loaded... Since my bedroom is upstairs it's obvious I could never get to the door. I'd be calling 911 and then things would get interesting, especially since there have been "issues" with fake cops down here...

Pop N Fresh said...

a lot of the first reaction is that old "If they had done that to me" line.......... but what about 3 seconds later, 16" fal still warm and the first guy from the stack on the floor. what then. all you hear is people in the hall screaming police, backup, and officer down. What they do is wrong but people need to remember that the courts and the voting booth are the places that these problems are solved. A bunch of arm chair commandos on the internet screaming about shooting cops and "I wish they'd try that on me" is just what the other side needs. We all know some fringe guys get really tough in the land O of the web.

That being said, two guys are driving down the highway when a highway patrol pulls up behind them and pulls them over, he asks the driver for his license and smacks his on the back of his head. Surprised, he gives the license to the cop and after a minute receives his license and his ticket followed by another smack. Shocked and speechless the driver and his passenger watch silently as the cop proceeds to walk around the car and knock on the passenger's door. The passenger lowers his window and without a moment's hesitation the cop smacks the passenger just like he had the driver. Outraged the passenger asks "what was that for??!?!" The cop replies "That's so a mile down the road you can't say 'I wish he would have tried that on me'".

Anonymous said...

I'm Sorry .... but that kind of crap would result in me going apeshit in a "prune the officers family tree" kind of way.

Those pigs in blue would need to carefully consider the possibility of losing a family member.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, Pop N Fresh, while a lot of people may talk a lot of smack, but one day, these kinds of no-knock warrant exercises will eventually be perpetrated on someone who has trained for home invasions, is armed, and is willing to defend themselves and their family.

And what with the number of criminal home invasions being committed with people wearing quasi-SWAT/police/tactical gear, one can hardly be surprised.

Yeah, a lot of innocent people would die, including probably the homeowner. Yeah, no-knock warrants are a bleeding travesty. Yeah, the homeowner would probably end up being tried (if he survived) and convicted.

But, again, in this day and age, can you really be surprised? Census workers are breaking into homes and raping handicapped women - do you know that armed thug coming through the door is actually Police?

Mikael said...

If Joe Q Public had access to flashbangs, at least you could turn the tables on them(and possibly have time to identify them as police before you shoot).

Short of that, I guess the only thing you could do is install video cameras pointing at your doors, with the feed monitor by your bed. (Being able to turn on recording to wireless router and having a loud intercom would help too, for legal reasons as well as a very obvious surrender without being face to face with mr.triggerhappy first).

Obviously this gets expensive though.

Of course the real solution is fixing the stupid, stop the war on drugs(especially the lesser ones).

Anonymous said...

The problem is that they AREN'T held accountable except in the rare instance where they kill someone who is completely innocent and then try to cover it up.

The cops close ranks. They perform a cursory, in-house "investigation" which, of course, determines that they did nothing wrong, and unless the victim has the money, time and connections to press the issue, it ends there.

If it does go to court, It is inevitably the victim that is defending himself against criminal charges. The cops will lie, the prosecutors will withhold evidence, and they'll manipulate the system and do everything in their power to discredit the victim/defendent no matter how thin the evidence against them.

Google Ryan Frederick or Corey Maye.

That's the problem. We cannot expect them to be held accountable for their actions, and as long as they know that they won't be held accountable, there is no incentive for them to stop the "rambo" tactics. This will continue happening ever more frequently because the public doesn't have the will to stop it.

Pop N Fresh: It's not about killing cops or getting retribution, it's about defending the family and home.

Do you really believe that in the 10 to 20 seconds between dead asleep banging on the door and the door being smashed in, any "normal" person would have time to effectively evaluate the situation and realize exactly what's going on?

The thing is criminals know this and they play on it. Would you care to see a sampling of the literally hundreds of newspaper stories I've found over the past year or so where bad guys kicked in the door screaming "police, search warrant" because they knew that doing so would probably cause that second's hesitation that they'd need to get the upper hand?

It happens several times a week somewhere in the country.

I don't have kids so I don't have to worry about unauthorized access. I have a loaded handgun within reach at all times. When I'm at home, the gun cabinet is unlocked and two utility rifles are at the front of the cabinet with loaded magazines at the ready.

I have two dogs that I presume will warn me that something's going on with enough notice that I'll be armed and ready by the time they start breaking down the door.

The bottom line is this: I know I'm not a criminal and that there is no reason for the police to be breaking down my door. If it happens, I don't care what they're yelling or how they're dressed, I'm assuming that it is a criminal assault on my home and I will react accordingly.

It will be a shame if a good, hardworking cop or two get killed along with me, but that's the chance they take when they start breaking down doors without a verifiable, compelling reason for doing so.

Don't want to get shot? Don't break down my door. It's as simple as that.

You may believe that I'm just blustering but the simple fact is that it doesn't matter what you believe. It only matters that I'm committed to my course of action and to defending my family and home.

I will not go gentle into that good night.

Rich said...

Awful... I dont care what anyone says, this is an instance of LE simply making an example of someone. There is no way that the police could have had reliable intelligence that this family posed enough of a threat to go in guns blazing under the cover of night. I'm sure they expected to find at least a little more than they actually found, but this is still no excuse for this wild west, cowboy mentality that this police dept put on display.

Those men should be ashamed of their behavior, and I can only hope that one day each of them get whats coming to them.

Poetic justice would be for them to get busted to traffic duty and shot down by some cracked out suspect on a routine stop...

Bram said...

I have the same fears - I sleep upstairs and would probably have my carbine up and functioning before they got to me.

Here is the interactive Raid Map. SWAT Cops have been killed busting down the wrong door. They have also killed plenty of innocent people for no reason.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Pop N Fresh said...

one more idea to throw out there, I run door jamb armor (http://www.djarmor.com/) on all my outside doors and have an iron gate with a shackle lock, on the inside, that leads to my front door which remains locked at night as well. If you want to have fun watch some of the vids on youtube of people trying to kick/ram/force their way through a solid braced outside door. That would buy you valuable seconds.
>>Linoge, I have thought out the scenario of people yelling something along the lines of "police" or "search warrant" and my response will be "armed home owner." After that the first thing I want to see is the warrant....

LauraH said...

I just have to mention this as a sidenote...

To me the most horrific thing about this video is the fact that they shot both family dogs, and killed one, in front of a 7 year old child. In the video you can hear the screams of the dog as it cries out in pain before the police shoot it again, killing it. All in front of a child, all for a measly amount of marijuana that weighed less than a ketchup packet.

That kid will NEVER forgive the police for what they did. For the brutality of the situation. That child will grow up fearing and resenting LEO officials probably for the rest of his life. He will always remember the day the cops stormed into his home, treated his entire family like criminals, and murdered his family pets, all for a measly amount of vegetable matter.

I will tell you one thing, I keep my dog well guarded away from people. I live in a bad neighborhood. Kids harass dogs, dogs get animal control called on them. As a fur-parent, I was just horrified to watch the video in question, and if the tables were turned, the police came storming into my house (bad neighborhood, heavy sleeper, I would be hiding in my bedroom with he shotgun and my dog as they came through the door), and they shot my dog like that (which they probably would, she doesn't like strangers coming into her home), they would have to shoot me as well. The rage and emotions that would take over would probably give them cause to kill me too.

So despicable. I'm afraid of what our nation is turning into. Militarized Socialist Police State. Rad. This isn't the United States of America that I was born into. This isn't the United States of America that I love and believe in.

Scary times.

Thank you for the insight, Jay.