I liked this pic best:
Proto-Seecamp
It's like a stack of Seecamp fetuses!
Anyways, here's mopar's account:
Cher and I were fortunate enough to have been invited to a tech session for owners of Seecamp pistols held at the Seecamp factory in Milford, CT. Really fortunate because neither of us even own a Seecamp! (more on that later!) If you've never heard of Seecamp, check out their website: http://seecamp.com/companyhistory.htm
and their wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seecamp
Jay, it's absolutely amazing the amount of handcrafting that goes into these guns! They may be 2-4 times the price of a Keltec, but these tiny guns are virtually handmade out of stainless steel, not made of injection molded plastic on an assembly line. After they are built, and passed Quality Control, every pistol made THEN goes to Larry Seecamp himself for inspection. He says since it's his name on the gun, he needs to make sure it meets his standards before it ships. To give you an idea of how impressed we were, before we even left the building we were making calls to a friend who I knew had one he was willing to part with.
Hopefully Cher will be a proud owner of a Seecamp LWS32 sometime this week.
But the real highlight of the day for me was after almost everyone else had left. There was just a small group hanging out talking with Larry Seecamp and the class instructor. The instructor asked if he could show us Larry's father's rifle.
OH EMM GEE! That might have been the sweetest rifle I've ever handled. Before founding L.W.Seecamp, Larry's dad had been the gun designer for Mossberg from 1959-1971. During that time he designed and built a rifle for his personal use. It's a lever action design chambered in .375 H&H Magnum, and it has the smoothest action and trigger I have ever felt in my life. Here's a pic of Larry Seecamp holding his dad's rifle:
Larry Seecamp with rifle
There are also pics of Cher and I fondling it, but Larry is cooler :)
It's just amazing to think his dad turned some chunks of steel and wood into such a fine rifle in his spare time, (not to mention his work for Mossberg and his DA 1911 conversions after he "retired"). His son carries on the tradition building amazing little pocket pistols out of chunks of steel.
I am familiar with Seecamps - dad has one, and I have shot it on several occasions (as well as polished the trigger a bit...) Nice guns, but a little more pricey - and heavy - than I'm willing to part with for a "nostril gun". Nice to see the level of craftsmanship that goes into them, though.
Thanks for the write-up Mopar - it sounds like a rockin' good time!
That is all.
7 comments:
That guy looks about as down-to-earth as they come.
If they ever start putting optional sights on their 380 like Rohrbaugh does, I'd save up for one in a hurry.
A couple of other things, some relate back to your post about your dad's Seecamp.
Weight (both .32 and .380): It is heavier then the keltec, but only by like 3oz. It's also a fair bit smaller then the keltec, so I think the difference feels more. Of course for the added weight you get polished stainless steel instead of plastic. You can see an overlay pic of the Seecamp over a Ruger LCP (same size as the Keltec) and other mouseguns here: Seecamp overlays
.32 vs .380: Seecamp makes both, just like Keltec. When I bought Cher her Keltec years ago, I bought her the .32 even though it's the "weaker" round. First gen .380 keltecs were notoriously unreliable. I'd personally rather have a .32 that goes bang every time then a .380 that may or may not function, so I went with the weaker round. I've still never met anyone who'll volunteer to take a few hits from the weak .32.....
Sights: Nope, the Seecamp doesn't have them. Larry Seecamp firmly believes in pointshooting for self defense, and he makes a very good argument for it based on facts and stats from police depts and military. Under self defense conditions, most people, even those highly trained in sight-shooting, revert to pointshooting, so why not train in pointshooting?
Also, in sightshooting you are blocking much of your field of vision below your sights with your hands. It's hard to see if a person is reaching for a gun or a wallet while keeping the sights on COM. Larry believes the focus on sightshooting has caused many of the incidents where an unarmed person was shot by mistake. It's actually pretty hard to argue with his logic. Larry has written a lot about it here: sights
Dry firing: Not sure where it came out that you can not dryfire a Seecamp. I thought the same thing myself, but Larry and Art (the instructor) talked extensively about the benefits of dryfire training and how no amount of dryfire (with one very distinct exception) will not harm the gun.
*exception: The Seecamp has a magazine disconnect. you can not normally pull the trigger with the mag out. However, if you apply pressure on the trigger while removing the mag it's possible to bypass the mag disconnect. Dryfiring the Seecamp with the mag out *IS* very bad, as the installed magazine acts as support for the trigger spring.
Cost: It is what it is. Trust me when I say nobody at Seecamp is getting rich. The amount of handcrafting and detail that goes into these things costs money, especially when they are made here in the USA and not in China where they pay people $30 a month instead of $30 a hour. The final contouring is all done by hand, who shapes it by eye and then hand polishes it. The best Seecamp vs Keltec comparison I've heard is this. It's like comparing a Rolex watch to a Timex. The Timex is much cheaper and may even keep more accurate time, but it's not a Rolex. You can make the same comparison with cars.
Lastly, how many other consumer products of any type can you directly call or visit the CEO/product designer if you have a question or problem and have him do whatever it takes no matter how long you've owned the product? Can you even put a price on service like that?
If you can't tell, after a day spent with the people behind Seecamp, I'm now firmly in their camp. Can't wait to add one to the collection.
Oh, they're impressive guns, that's for certain - the level of craftsmanship that goes into a Seecamp is on a par with a custom 1911.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us - what a great time that looks like!
Seacamps aren't really my thing, but that lever gun is SWEET looking!
Larry Seecamp is, indeed, one of THE most down to earth people I've ever met. Unassuming, modest and incredibly intelligent. His father's rifle is nothing short of amazing. It is extremely impressive that nearly every step of a Seecamp gun is handled by a human being. A handcrafted piece of awesome firepower . . . oh, yeah, can't wait to have mine!
Seecamps were the unofficial BUG for the Philly Police Department. Every street officier would order two in .32 and start saving.
When the order came in (10-20 weeks) he would keep one and sell the other to somebody else on the force.
No Rizzo Raider would ever be without a Seecamp and a blackjack.
Gerry
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