Monday, December 27, 2010

Tough Question #2...

In my post promoting my second article for Guns, Holsters, and Gear, commenter Vic asks an excellent question:
So here's a question.

I don't own a gun, I've never owned one, and I've never had formal training. I have, however, been shooting a couple of times and plan to buy a gun in a few months (I'm abroad at the moment and won't be back until the summer). The few times I went shooting, I discovered that while I have fun putting more or less anything downrange, I really, really loved the 1911s and the .357 revolver I shot (I did my best to try as many of the 9mm plastics for comparison and tried the 1911s on a whim). I'm now torn as to whether I should stick with a smaller caliber for the first gun, or just buy a 1911 and learn on that.

What do you think? I don't think I need to be "hooked" (I'm totally there, the only reason I wasn't at the range every day this summer was that it costs money and that you need a buddy to rent a lane if you don't own a gun), but I'm definitely a long way from any kind of competency.
Man, that's a tough call. I love the 1911 platform in (almost) all of its incarnations (that LDA trigger is an abomination unto John Moses Browning, PBUH), but I'm also an unabashed wheelgun fan. I carry a 1911 in the winter and a J-frame pretty much year round, and have been known to carry a 3" K-frame from time to time as well. .45 ACP and .357 Magnum are both capable defensive calibers, with the 1911 having the edge in capacity but the .357 Magnum having the edge in versatility (given that a revolver chambered in .357 Magnum will also fire the .38 Special cartridge).

Many factors influence the response here.
  • What's the price range?
A quality .357 Magnum revolver can be found used for $300 - $400 and new for about double that; 1911s vary greatly from Rock Island Armory or AutoOrdnance for around $500 to, well, $65K (okay, that might be an outlier, but a custom 1911 can easily run well into quality used car area for price). Ammo prices are fairly comparable - .45 ACP runs between $15 and $20 for a box of 50 rounds, .38 Special/.357 Magnum about the same.
  • What's the intended purpose?
Concealed carry? Target shooting? General plinking? A Commander-sized 1911 might be suitable for all three purposes; ditto a 3" barrel model 386. A Smith & Wesson model 60 (or the Snubbie from Hell™ model 360) is more concealable under more conditions; a 5" Government Colt is more accurate and has higher capacity, so as a target gun or for home defense might get the edge. For hunting a 6" barrel .357 Magnum would work better than most anything available on the 1911 platform. If the purpose is a general, good for all three gun, then a Commander 1911 or 3" Night Guard might work (or a 4" Model 19, for that matter).
  • How much tinkering do you like to do?
The 1911 wins here, hands down. The revolver has the option of changing out the grips, lightening the trigger, and maybe changing out the sights. The 1911 has an entire industry devoted to aftermarket parts. If you're the sort who wants to customize your handgun, the 1911 certainly has more options; on the other hand, if you just want to take it out of the box and make it go bang, the wheelgun might work better for your needs. Another consideration for the 1911 is that you can get a conversion kit for it and be able to shoot .22LR through it - making for cheap plinking costs but still being able to use it as a defensive arm with the original barrel and slide.


It's a difficult question, that's for certain. Part of me is tempted to punt and say get both - look for a generic .357 Magnum wheelie as well as an entry-level 1911. It's hard to recommend one or the other - for general plinking they're both just fun, outstanding guns. If the only criteria is "something to take to the range and have fun", well, grab a handful of cash and go to the gun store. See what jumps out at you. You really can't lose.

If pressed to make an absolute choice between the two, I'd opt for a 4" barrel Smith & Wesson model 19 or 686 or Ruger GP100. A medium frame .357 Magnum revolver is a swiss army knife type of gun - stoke it with Cowboy Action .38 Special loads for light plinking or taking a new shooter to the range for their first centerfire handgun; stoke it with 158 grain .357 Magnum rounds for self-defense. They're easier to clean and require less maintenance than their semi-automatic counterparts, and still yield plenty of punch on the naughty end.

What would you recommend - 1911 semi-automatic or .357 Magnum revolver?

That is all.

16 comments:

ZerCool said...

My first pistol was a 1911, and I don't regret that one bit. If you want to train cheap on a 1911, get a RIA/Armscor and a .22 upper to work on your trigger and grip/stance.

However, it has been said (and I agree) that if you can shoot a DA revolver well, you can shoot anything. As you mentioned, put it on the bedside table with full-power .357s, and plink with .38s.

So ... for an all-purpose range/home/carry(?) gun, my vote goes to a medium-frame .357 revolver. A Model 19, 66, or 13 - particularly a 3" Model 13 if carry is an intended use - would fit the bill beautifully.

If not for carry, a Highway Patrolman (Model 28) is tough to beat, and with a bit of shopping can still be found in the $400 range.

(And, side note, if you don't want to get into reloading, 158gr LRN is available from Georgia Arms for $210/1000.)

Bob said...

The answer is dictated by your reader's first sentence: I don't own a gun, I've never owned one, and I've never had formal training. I have, however, been shooting a couple of times...

.357 revolver. The 1911 is not a good choice for self-defense for a new shooter because it has a more complicated manual of arms than the .357. I'm not saying it's not a fine choice, just that it's not a fine choice for a beginner.

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

My first pistol was a S&W 686, and I came to that decision after firing a .44 magnum and thinking, "this is ok, but a bit too much, I'll step down a notch for a purchase of my own." I don't regret the decision and would do it again and it is still probably my all time favorite handgun.

I wish I liked my 1911 as much.

Jay G said...

Yeah, I guess I should mention that my first gun was a Ruger Security Six, six inch barrel, in .357 Magnum.

I've also got one more .357 Magnum wheelgun than 1911, too...

Angus McThag said...

The 1911 is just fine for a first gun. I watched over 200 people who'd never fired a gun before learn to disassemble, assemble, fire and clean a 1911 in less than a week.

It was called basic training (OSUT to be nitpicky)

KurtP said...

Something else to think about in the future is that you can get a nice Henry or a Chaparral 1866 that's an affordable lever action and comes in pistol calibers.
That way, you have twice the ability to send the same rounds down range.

This is something that I'm looking at next:
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9781002

Peter said...

I agree with Zercool's comment that "if you can shoot a DA revolver well, you can shoot anything". A basic .38 Special/.357 Magnum revolver is an excellent beginner's gun for that reason, and it can also accommodate effective defensive ammo for that hope-it-never-happens moment, if and when it comes around.

The 1911? I've trusted my life to one before, and if it's a reliable example, it's a superb fighting weapon . . . but it's an expert's gun. It's just too easy to have a negligent discharge out of that platform (which was the US Army's primary reason for going to a DA pistol in the first place - too many injured soldiers!) If your buddy is going to take a course or two at Gunsite, and follow it up with regular practice (at least 100-200 rounds per month, IMHO, and preferably more than once per month!), I submit that the platform isn't optimal for him.

Peter said...

Sorry - mistyped. I said:

"If your buddy is going to take a course or two at Gunsite"

That should have been:

"UNLESS your buddy is going to take a course or two at Gunsite"

Oops! :-)

Chris in Texas said...

I'll submit that the DA revolver is aboout has about as simple a manual of arms as you can find in a pistol. my dad taught me to shoot pistols with an S&W 65.

That said, I bought a 1911 when I turned 21 and I've been carrying it ever since (until recently when the extractor claw sheared off.) I like the fact that you have to pay attention to carry it properly.

Bubblehead Les. said...

IMHO, a 4 inch .357 or a 1911 should be the SECOND gun. The first should be a .22LR (either revolver or pistol) and practice, practice practice. This gives him a choice. If he goes down the revolver path, then he's got time to get rid of the jerks, flinches, shakes, etc. that impedes good Double Action work. If he goes down the pistol path and he picks up a Ruger 22/45, then he can work on the smooth press to the rear for the 1911. Either way, the .22 trainer will always be useful, if just for the cost of the ammunition. Plus, a few years down the road, he can train someone else. YMMV, of course.

JD said...

Either a .22 or a 1911 and a .22 conversion kit so you can get lots of range time without breaking the bank. . .. especially for a new gunny. . . .

Veeshir said...

What would you recommend - 1911 semi-automatic or .357 Magnum revolver?

Both.

Link P said...

I examined both wheelguns and semi-autos when I made my first handgun purchase around sixteen years ago. I liked aspects of both and was having trouble deciding, too. I punted and got both, and, although there was no 1911 in my young budget, I did get a .357. I had no problems with a 2" .357 as my first revolver, but I wouldn't recommend that to a new shooter since YMMV.

Daddy Hawk said...

Some great comments so far, and I have nothing new to add except another vote. My first handgun purchase was a Taurus .357 revolver with a 6" barrel. If I had to do it all over again, the only thing I would do different is get a Ruger GP100 with the 4". The 4" is concealable enough in certain holsters to serve the CCW purpose, it's got enough barrel for target and hunting purposes, and it's all but idiot proof. Once you're comfortable with full power magnum loads going boom and getting on target, everything else is easy to transition into.

Anonymous said...

User hasn't answered the "use" question: the objects you buy should reflect the use you have for them. Second to that, hands are complicated so -fit- is the second factor (but he's got a start on this with renting guns). Lacking that info I'd offer the baseless and unfounded suggestion of a 1911 with a good .22 conversion kit (or, buy the kit & then you'll save faster for the gun). But that's only because that reflects -my- use. ;) Boyd K

Vic said...

Wow, I'm glad I could provide you with some blog fodder. Thanks for laying out your thought processes, which I'm relieved to see aren't all that far off mine. I'm surprised at the amount of support for the wheelguns amongst the commenters,as I always get advised to go with an automatic first.
In answer to your questions:
1)What's the price range?
Trying to keep it around $600 out the door, though I may stretch it as far as, say, $800 if I can get something really really nice. Those readers in states with sane gun laws should probably tack another 100 on your assumed price as I live in California.
2)What's the intended purpose?
Plinking and Home Defense. No real purpose in looking for a concealed carry at this point in the county I live in.
3)How much tinkering do you like to do?
I'd like to have the option, but I don't think I'll do an awful lot of it anytime soon.

Up till now I've been leaning towards the 1911 (say, an SA or an RIA) and then getting a .22 kit to plink with. But I'll certainly look harder at revolvers as well.
No matter which I get, I'll get some training when I buy it if not before.