Okay. I've cleared it with Mrs. G. I am buying an AR-15 clone and a semi-auto AK variant before the end of the year. I can see the writing on the new Assault Weapon Ban wall, and something tells me to pick up a suspect rifle before the ban starts getting press - and prices go through the roof to match the demand.
There is, of course, one extra fun wrinkle - since I'm in MA, I'm covered by the former AWB - Mitt Romney signed that little doozy in 2004 when the Fed ban sunset, fuck you very much Mitt. This means that unless I want to pay an extra $500+ for a "pre-ban" rifle, I can't have a folding/telescoping stock, bayonet lug, or flash suppressor. Really, the folding/telescoping stock is the only bummer, as a decent multi-position stock makes fitting the gun to different people quite handy. OTOH, the ACE Skeleton stocks look pretty bad-ass and are good to go for ban purposes...
That said... Which AR variant should I get? The local gun shop has DPMS and Bushmaster variants as well as the S&W M&P15 for between $900 and $1300. I've heard good things about all three makes; is any one better or worth the extra money? Is there another manufacturer I should look into ordering? Hell, are there even folks out there who bother making "post-ban" configured rifles any more?
Basically, I'm looking to get something to plink with, something to own more or less because they don't trust me to own it. My personal act of defiance, if you will. I make no claim about possessing mad shootin' skillz, so I don't need something that will shoot 0.25 MOA at 7,000 yards. I want something decent, cheap, and reliable. What can I get that will leave me enough for extra 30 round magazines and 500 rounds of ammo?
Side note: When the HELL did freakin' WASR-10s go up to $500????? Holy CRAP I am kicking myself for not getting 2 when they were $319 each...
Side note2: Order an M1 Carbine from CMP TOMORROW, if not sooner...
Thanks in advance for any assistance y'all can offer to an AR-15 noob...
That is all.
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I can feel your pain, I got my WASR for just under $400 with two 30 round mags three years ago. . . nice gun, but not as accurate as the AR. . .
SO I got a Bushmaster AR with fixed stock and 20" barrel. I love it. Went for about $900 at Four Seasons in Wouburn. I have to say I have only had it for one shooting seasion but my 13 yr old daughter loves it and I do too. It has a good solid feel to it and I just added a compensator to it for $50 so it looks like it has a military style muzzle on it. Looks better and shoots well.
I have not shot many other ARs but I have to say I am happy with my Bushmaster. And check out Four Seasons for ammo and such, they usually have good prices
Jay,
Am I correct in assuming that in MA you can use a current production AR lower if you assemble it in a postban configuration (telstock, bayo lug, flash hider)?
If so, there are a few vendors who make "post" configured top ends - can't get to many sites from work, but midway and brownells have drop on top ends.
I have had a DPMS since 9/12/94 (paid dearly for the bare receiver) and it has served well in my NRA hipower match gun. Have a bushmaster for my carbine, built a bushmaster NRA hipo for my dad, and currently building a DPMS pistol.
There are only a handful of forging manufactures, but many shops do their own finish machining. Then again, some shops do machining and are allowed to etch on other's names. I forget who makes for whom, but long story short, they are all functionally identical, all will outlast you. Some may have cosmetic differences - do you need "auto" engraved, or checkering in front of the magwell, etc.
BTW - I am anti bushmaster. Long story short, they pulled some of their local production (I'm in Southern ME) and moved it to chchchchina.
Anybody's lower will work with anyoned upper. I'd expect you can grab a complete lower for about $250-300, and $450+++ for uppers. This is assuming pretty generic configurations, no 878 position rails, piston systems, etc.
Hmn- Imma send you an email for a nonpostable thought.
Stag would be just as good, and a lot cheaper.
Learned that from my EBR bleg yesterday. =)
Three of my buddies and I each have Bushmasters. Models run from 16" bbl. M-4 clones to 24" bbl. flat-top varmint guns. All perform flawlessly.
Stock up on Brownell's 20 (yes, twenty) round magazines. IMO they are easier to live with than the 30 rd. ones. And keep a few 5 round mags around for hunting. Thanks for info on Romney and the AWB in Mass. Never gonna get my vote for anything again.
Lowers are all pretty much the same, though some have a nicer finish. (compare a Bushy to a Mega and you'll see what I mean)
As for uppers I'd buy a CMMG.
the M&P, if not out of reach price wise, would be my choice. The parts are all made in the same factories these days (an exaggeration, sure, but not much of one) but S&W does a much more thorough QC job on the parts they use than the other manufacturers you list. That said, I went and built an M4 clone on a stag lower using a Del-Ton parts kit, and I am very happy with the results.
Hey Bro,
What do you thing of the FNH SCARS?
I just heard 2009 is supposed to see the release of semi-auto civilian versions?
I've always hesitated on the ARs (okay, like for the past year) because the messy system. I think the SCARS are supposed to be piston based.
I'm sure ArmaLite makes ban compliant AR's, they are listed on the web-site as available with a "-2" added to the model number.
Finding one in stock is probably a different matter.
Try Buds?
"http://www.budsgunshop.com"
Happy as a clam with my Rock River -- well made, reasonably priced - mine is a flat top with the 16" barrel . I have a Holosight on it,but you can add that or something else later. Brownells has excellent mags - I agree about the 20 round mags, but can you have them in Mass?
You can get 20 or 30 round mags in MA if you can find them. They have to be used/pre 98 law. . . ya it sucks but I did get a few 20s when I got my gun. . . a year ago they were running about $30 per mag. . .
You can save some $$$ by buying your upper and lower separately, though mail-ordering an upper that's not back-ordered 6 months might be problematic. Got any gun shows coming up?
Building a lower from a bare stripped receiver is fun ONCE; now that I've been through that, I'd rather have the pros assemble all the pins and springs and pistol grip and I'll take care of the rest. YMMV.
FWIW- Paul can & has modified some scawy looking ARs into not-so-scawy by doing alterations to make them MA compliant.
Just a thought, as you can pick the rifle & he can make it all better...
JD,
When I first started going to Four Seasons, they were advertising WASR-10s for $329 cash, and putting them on sale for $309...
wally,
Yes, that is correct. You can order a gun with evil features, but you can't take possession with the evil features intact.
I'm really not interested in getting pieces parts, because I'm both lazy and impatient... ;)
And I got the e-mail. Give me a little bit to think...
Rust, stretch, and mike, thanks for the recommendations. It sounds like I pretty much can't go wrong with a "brand name" AR-15 variant.
poobie,
The S&W is on the high end (listed at $1300), but everything I'm hearing is good. If I have enough cash I might go that route.
the saj,
It looks neat as hell, I don't think it's MA-legal because of the folding stock. Although I suppose it could be pinned.
anon,
It's worth checking out, that's for sure.
libertyman,
We can own 20- and 30- round magazines, but they have to be pre-ban - made before September 1994...
DT,
That's a thought. It's pretty easy, actually, to make a rifle compliant - grind off the bayo lug, weld on a muzzle brake, and pin a folding/adjustable stock.
Hmmm. And if I head out that way, I could always swing in to test the new rifle out...
Hey, what are Paul's prices on AK-47 clones? Hmmm....
Jay- Look at Rock River- You can order to your spec, it's a pretty good gun, and you would have a reliable weapon. I'm anti-bushy... they are POS guns that don't run worth a damn in my experience. At a match last year, 3 of 5 broke and were DNF for the match. S&W is good, but expensive. DPMS, you have to go higher end to get good quality.
As for mags, go to MAGPUL and get their mags. Best on the market other than H&K, which run about $45 each.
Jay,
I'm not fully familiar with MA restrictions, but the last time I was at Paul's, one of the guys said they were selling AR lowers. Might be a reasonably priced way to build a compliant unit... I picked up a Bushmaster A3 style /
20" barrel last Dec for the same reason you mentioned. Also just picked up a Ruger 10/22 at Paul's based on your 10/22/2007 post. Thanks for lightening my wallet man.
-SR
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Receivers.html
Scroll down bit to the lower receiver with internals if you don't want complications. Stocks are easy to put on and cheap even at new prices. The cool thing about buying the lower like this is you pay pitman/robertson (spelling?) tax on only this piece/price. Saving that 10% off the rest can be handy.
There are literally a dozen companies that will sell you a barreled(assembled and headspaced) upper that conforms to the ban requirements. http://www.mapartsinc.com/ is one I've used but there are others just as good. You could also pick one up from the auction sites and AR forums, too. The upper can be shipped direct to you. Slide the bolt in, push the pins in, and you're good to go. I have $750 in my latest and I got exactly what I wanted for configuration.
Well, I just wandered down to my local shop (since even Traction Control was out of stock) and purchased two DPMS AR-15 lowers - one for investement, and one to construct. Not sure into what, yet, but I figure I cannot go too wrong with an AR-15 in general.
Jay,
Since you're heading down the reloading path, you ever give consideration to an AR pattern EBR in 6.8spc or 6.5 Grendell? They have almost the same hitting power and reach as the 7.62 Nato with barely more recoil than the "poodle-shooter" (h/t to Kim) round. Granted neither are common rounds, but it was just a thought. Then again, the pragmatic side of me says get 2 EBRs, one in poodle-shooter and the other in 7.62 Nato.
Oh if you are thinking 7.62x39 would be fun in an AR, don't trust the colt approach of a 762 mag in a standard AR magwell. They only work with 8-10 rounds in the mag.
Check out MGImilitary(dot)com. They make a modular AR-15 lower that will take regular ol' kalashnikov magazines.
Don't have one, but its really appealing as I have tooo much 762x39 ammo.
Rumor has it they have a 7.62x51 magwell in development too
Libertyman and I seem to have the exact same rifle. You can't go wrong with Rock River Arms, they put together one quality gun.
Brass
I have a Rock River Arms RAR-15 and I love it... never had any issues with it.
I agree with the comment about the Magpul Pmags as well. Now if only I can find some before they get banned...
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