(thanks to Wally for the original picture)
Reader Scott has a very interesting question (and a unique way of asking):
Hi Jay,
I figured you might be the guy who can help me solve a problem, if you have a spare minute.
Hmm. I replied to Scott thusly:I'm looking for a shtf rifle, but have a rather odd set of restrictions. I'm arthritic, making weight and trigger pull major considerations. Also astigmatic, making long eye relief options, a la Scout platform, nonviable.
Below are the requirements; tell me what you think.
DWANS seeks Battle Rifle(ish) for long term partnership. (divorced white arthritic nearsighted shooter)
Must be lightweight, svelte, reliable.
Know what you want and how to get it. (Good accuracy, firehoses need not apply)
Strong but not overbearing. (.30 cal +, but not silly)
Must love dogs. (no poodle shooters)
No glasses, contacts fine. (regular scope mount ok, no ler)
Fiery temper, you need only a light touch to set you off. (maybe I should reword that?) (lighter trigger)
Big eater is fine, as long as you are cheap to feed. Leftovers ok.
Ideas, thoughts, witty insults?
Scott
My first impression would be to look for something in an AR pattern, as it meets most of your criteria. Lightweight, can have a very light trigger, accurate, reliable, etc. That's the easy part. The tough part is figuring out the caliber - .223 is inexpensive and plentiful, but you're looking for something more powerful. However, the wildcats like 300BLK and 6.8 WTF are, while certainly more potent, significantly more expensive to feed than .223. It's gonna be like that old joke about auto repair: Good, fast, and cheap; you can have any 2 out of the 3... It's the same with rifles. The variables are cheap to feed, accurate, and powerful. Take any 2 of those. .223 is cheap and accurate, but not that powerful. 7.62X39mm is cheap to feed and powerful, but not accurate. 7.62X51mm is accurate and powerful, but not cheap.
I'd recommend taking a look at the 6.8mm or 300 BLK cartridges and decide if you really need the extra oomph for the price, then look at either .223 or .308.
So, anyone have any other thoughts for Scott?
That is all.
13 comments:
I think it's full sized AR-10 in .308, it fills all the criteria. Cheap to feed is relative, but he's not going to find a better balance of accuracy and cost than that.
Same here - lightweight AR-10 build is as cheap to feed as a modern .30 cal battle rifle gets.
Ruger gunsite scout might be a good fit.
Is there something inherently less accurate about the 7.62x39 round?
I'm no professional shootist, but I always understood that the accuracy issue was more a matter of the platform it which it is typically shot (SKS, AK-variants, Mini-30) than the actual round itself, particularly if you utilize fresh commercial loadings instead of 20+year old surplus.
+1 to what Phssthpok said. Don't dismiss 7.62x39 just because the majority of it is shot from AKs. It's not a long range cartridge, but if you're sniping people at 1000 yards you need a different gun anyway.
In a SHTF situation you're going to want a reliable gun. That's one of the reasons the AK platform is so popular in spite of its inaccuracy. So whatever you get, get something that's easy to maintain.
The 7.62X39mm is *not* inherently inaccurate; it's just that the *VAST* majority of both ammunition and firearms chambered in it are less accurate than .223 Rem or .308 Win ammunition/firearms.
7.62X39mm is primarily found in SKSs and AK-47 pattern rifles. These aren't inaccurate rifles, just less accurate than the AR-15 pattern. The ammunition is also primarily mil-surp/comblock variety, which is valued for being inexpensive, but not lovingly crafted like .223... :)
What's the purpose of a gun during SHTF? Are you protecting yourself, raiding other people for supplies, or racking up a body count?
For defense, especially against large groups, you need a large quantity of ammo on hand and in the magazine. Lethality is less of an issue. An attacker doesn't have to be dead to stop attacking. That's why U.S. forces went to the 5.56 - a soldier can carry more, and deal with more threats, than he can with a larger caliber. 7.62x39 fills a similar niche, but as you said, the platforms that fire it are traditionally less accurate. Advantage 5.56.
If you're raiding, similar rules apply. You don't need to kill every opponent, but you may need to put down a lot of them -and- you need to move quickly. Advantage 5.56 again.
If you're looking for body count, go big or go home. AR-10 is the way to go.
Hi there Derek (or anyone else), does one have samples of those that do their concerning pages like you’ve described here?
e-investment fraud
off the cuff, 223 is good but 300BLK gets you 30cal in a lightweight AR-15 action. An AR-10 in 308 can also fit the bill nicely.
Either can be built fairly light (I just did an AR-10 at 7.4#) and both have good trigger options, as low as 3#.
The AR platform seems to have the best flexibility and customizability. For caliber, I'd have to to agree with others and say .308Win/7.62NATO. It may not be as cheap as .223, but it's not bank-breaking for most people, either. I've also found that even the cheap stuff will give me 3"-4" groups at 100 yards from my bolt action Savage - and I'm pretty sure some of that spread is me and not the ammo.
My understanding is that an AR platform should take a regular scope no problem, so that should leave the more specific details up to his personal preferences and intended uses. For ~50 yards or less I'd go with a holographic or reflex sight. For 50+ yards I'd go with a scope with at least 12x magnification, but that's my personal preference. YMMV, and all that.
Being an Oulde Phart I lived a great deal of my life befire evil black rifles came into being. M-1 carbines were always looked upon with smiles, as was the introduction of .45acp and then 9mm carbines - Marlin's Camp model being perhaps the epitome of form and function. There is a new generation of pistol-caliber carbines on the market that have taken the best of the old and some of the good of the new to create examples that are both NIB and not scarce as hen's teeth in used condition.
SHTF is not hunting African Big Game and it is not (always) holding off the Mongolian/Hun hordes at the gates.
The frosting on the cake is you carry ammo for your handgun and long gun in the same magazine.
stay safe.
Here's a thought- what about a VEPR in 7.62x54R? Seriously cheap to feed, a solidly built rifle, and you can use both irons and an offset scope mount (like a POSP). Comparable in price to other battle rifles, but the ammo cost if far cheaper.
Actually, my SHTF battle rifle is a bubba'd SMLE I picked up at a Sheriff's sale for $35. Mil-surp is still available, handloading is a snap, and stripper clips are awesome. A few minutes with an Arkansas stone and the pull is down to 4-5 lbs (don't go crazy with it, if in doubt, see gunsmith) and anybody that thinks it's not rapid fire enough should try the mad minute. Since mine was pre-bubba'd, I cut the barrel (more than it was) and put a ghost ring on it.
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